Talk:3175: Website Task Flowchart - Revision history

76.180.39.133 at 16:23, 13 December 2025

2025-12-13T16:23:10Z

82.13.184.33 at 09:48, 8 December 2025

2025-12-08T09:48:54Z

82.132.237.210 at 15:27, 3 December 2025

2025-12-03T15:27:44Z

Beechmere at 02:45, 3 December 2025

2025-12-03T02:45:27Z

Beechmere at 02:43, 3 December 2025

2025-12-03T02:43:32Z

DollarStoreBa'al at 20:44, 2 December 2025

2025-12-02T20:44:52Z

136.226.7.187 at 20:26, 2 December 2025

2025-12-02T20:26:03Z

82.132.237.203 at 16:25, 2 December 2025

2025-12-02T16:25:54Z

Kirinhatchi at 15:03, 2 December 2025

2025-12-02T15:03:56Z

2001:4C4E:1C14:9800:F167:89F7:6CCE:353B at 08:30, 2 December 2025

2025-12-02T08:30:11Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:23, 13 December 2025
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	:That said, as a tech-type myself I do groan at being dealt with by people for whom my 'obvious' and tech-grounded explanation of the steps I've tried so far seem to be heard as nothing much far from "one of cross-beam's gone out of skew on treadle!", just because they can't match my words to the equally descriptive words from their script/training/experience, and so we may have to bounce around a few terms to find common ground (ethernet cable or patch cable, etc... you know, RJ45 ends, etc, and if it's a crossover one I'd tell you) to get onto the same (''early'') page in the troubleshooting handbook.		:That said, as a tech-type myself I do groan at being dealt with by people for whom my 'obvious' and tech-grounded explanation of the steps I've tried so far seem to be heard as nothing much far from "one of cross-beam's gone out of skew on treadle!", just because they can't match my words to the equally descriptive words from their script/training/experience, and so we may have to bounce around a few terms to find common ground (ethernet cable or patch cable, etc... you know, RJ45 ends, etc, and if it's a crossover one I'd tell you) to get onto the same (''early'') page in the troubleshooting handbook.
	:When I've been the tech-support (internal, only, so not the same kind of anonymous desk-drone as alluded to above), I've been at the receiving end of a wide range of 'incoming expertise', and a wide range of how complicated the error actually was. From the "Fonzi" repair (Repair Manouevre Number One: Hit it! ...works surprisingly often) and the "Roy" (Repair Manouevre Number Two: "Have you tried turning it off and back on again..?") to the truly weird (the reason why one particular line-printer wouldn't print off one particular client's reports on one particular day... we worked out why, but as the problem wouldn't arise the next working day we didn't change the deliberately obtuse thing work, just suggested those printouts could wait a day, and made an internal note in case any other client's work on any future day stopped printing on any other printer due to a similar confluence of issues). Plenty of them were ''at least partially'' PEBCAK issues, though some of those users really did pride themselves over having tried "all the obvious fixes", despite being proven otherwise from a thirty-second desk-visit after the five minute talk-through over the phone hadn't gone well at all... [[Special:Contributions/82.132.237.210\|82.132.237.210]] 15:27, 3 December 2025 (UTC)		:When I've been the tech-support (internal, only, so not the same kind of anonymous desk-drone as alluded to above), I've been at the receiving end of a wide range of 'incoming expertise', and a wide range of how complicated the error actually was. From the "Fonzi" repair (Repair Manouevre Number One: Hit it! ...works surprisingly often) and the "Roy" (Repair Manouevre Number Two: "Have you tried turning it off and back on again..?") to the truly weird (the reason why one particular line-printer wouldn't print off one particular client's reports on one particular day... we worked out why, but as the problem wouldn't arise the next working day we didn't change the deliberately obtuse thing work, just suggested those printouts could wait a day, and made an internal note in case any other client's work on any future day stopped printing on any other printer due to a similar confluence of issues). Plenty of them were ''at least partially'' PEBCAK issues, though some of those users really did pride themselves over having tried "all the obvious fixes", despite being proven otherwise from a thirty-second desk-visit after the five minute talk-through over the phone hadn't gone well at all... [[Special:Contributions/82.132.237.210\|82.132.237.210]] 15:27, 3 December 2025 (UTC)
		+	:: I've been on both sides of the conversation. "It's not working.", "Is it plugged in?", "Do you think I'm an ... , Oh never mind it works once it's plugged in." When all else fails, borrow somebody else's intern and explain how it's supposed to work.[[Special:Contributions/76.180.39.133\|76.180.39.133]] 16:23, 13 December 2025 (UTC)

@@ Line 21: / Line 21: @@
 :But think of the glorious profits we can make by firing humans who need our jobs to survive! <span style="font-family: Times New Roman, serif; font-size: 16px;">--'''''[[User:DollarStoreBa'al|<span style="color:#023020">DollarStoreBa'al</span>]]<sup>[[User Talk:DollarStoreBa'al|<span style="color:#000080">Converse</span>]]</sup></span> 20:44, 2 December 2025 (UTC)
-I always try to solve problems myself before calling the helpdesk.  This involves applying the most obvious fix, then the next most obvious.
+I always try to solve problems myself before calling the helpdesk. This involves applying the most obvious fix, then the next most obvious.
 When these fail (as I expected), I call.
 :"Hello, Service Desk, ** speaking, how may I help you?"
@@ Line 28: / Line 28: @@
 :"Yes, I said I've tried that."
 :"What about #2 ***?"
-::Why do they insist on suggesting solutions that I've already told them don't work?   [[User:Beechmere|Beechmere]] ([[User talk:Beechmere|talk]]) 02:43, 3 December 2025 (UTC)
+Why do they insist on suggesting solutions that I've already told them don't work?   [[User:Beechmere|Beechmere]] ([[User talk:Beechmere|talk]]) 02:43, 3 December 2025 (UTC)
-::Because you haven't? They may or may not have a script to follow, or actually know their thing, but (unless you've abbreviated your introductory description) they've got a voice at the other end only saying "the most obvious solutions" have been tried. But are these the obvious solutions to the actual expert (or the maybe-'experts' who wrote the support-workflow script), or just have skipped the real First Action Points entirely. They probably have to deal with many misconceptions from every (self-professed) 'technicaly-adept' voice on the end of the line. (Or, if script-led, don't recognise your more homegrown terminology as it relates to what they only know from what they've occasionally had described to them on their on-screen 'expert flowchart'.)
+:Because you haven't? They may or may not have a script to follow, or actually know their thing, but (unless you've abbreviated your introductory description) they've got a voice at the other end only saying "the most obvious solutions" have been tried. But are these the obvious solutions to the actual expert (or the maybe-'experts' who wrote the support-workflow script), or just have skipped the real First Action Points entirely. They probably have to deal with many misconceptions from every (self-professed) 'technicaly-adept' voice on the end of the line. (Or, if script-led, don't recognise your more homegrown terminology as it relates to what they only know from what they've occasionally had described to them on their on-screen 'expert flowchart'.)
-::And they've really got to (e.g.) ask ''whether'' you've actually plugged the printer in (in times past, Parallel Port; these days, USB or even network cable; unless it's a wireless connectivity of your choiceñ) because all the rest of the checks (and which driver/config redo to use) isn't going to help much if there's no way that the thing that's supposed to be talking can be heard by the thing that's supposed to be listening.
+:And they've really got to (e.g.) ask ''whether'' you've actually plugged the printer in (in times past, Parallel Port; these days, USB or even network cable; unless it's a wireless connectivity of your choiceñ) because all the rest of the checks (and which driver/config redo to use) isn't going to help much if there's no way that the thing that's supposed to be talking can be heard by the thing that's supposed to be listening.
-::(Notwithstanding the old "yes, it's definitely plugged in!", which can sometimes be resolved by "but have you tried plugging the cable in the other way round?"... ''Occasionally'' a bidirectional cable or a symmetrical plug actually works one way round when it won't the other (though I'd suspect cable/connector damage, in such cases, and that's a temporary fix at best), but amazingly it sometimes works(!) with an asymmetric connection (whether D-Sub, USB-pre-C, etc). Because the know-it-all who was adamant that it was plugged in only actually checked when asked to fiddle with it, now plugs it in the 'other' (i.e. one and only) way round and then happily/resentfully accepts that it's started working.)
+:(Notwithstanding the old "yes, it's definitely plugged in!", which can sometimes be resolved by "but have you tried plugging the cable in the other way round?"... ''Occasionally'' a bidirectional cable or a symmetrical plug actually works one way round when it won't the other (though I'd suspect cable/connector damage, in such cases, and that's a temporary fix at best), but amazingly it sometimes works(!) with an asymmetric connection (whether D-Sub, USB-pre-C, etc). Because the know-it-all who was adamant that it was plugged in only actually checked when asked to fiddle with it, now plugs it in the 'other' (i.e. one and only) way round and then happily/resentfully accepts that it's started working.)
-::That said, as a tech-type myself I do groan at being dealt with by people for whom my 'obvious' and tech-grounded explanation of the steps I've tried so far seem to be heard as nothing much far from "one of cross-beam's gone out of skew on treadle!", just because they can't match my words to the equally descriptive words from their script/training/experience, and so we may have to bounce around a few terms to find common ground (ethernet cable or patch cable, etc... you know, RJ45 ends, etc, and if it's a crossover one I'd tell you) to get onto the same (''early'') page in the troubleshooting handbook.
+:That said, as a tech-type myself I do groan at being dealt with by people for whom my 'obvious' and tech-grounded explanation of the steps I've tried so far seem to be heard as nothing much far from "one of cross-beam's gone out of skew on treadle!", just because they can't match my words to the equally descriptive words from their script/training/experience, and so we may have to bounce around a few terms to find common ground (ethernet cable or patch cable, etc... you know, RJ45 ends, etc, and if it's a crossover one I'd tell you) to get onto the same (''early'') page in the troubleshooting handbook.
-::When I've been the tech-support (internal, only, so not the same kind of anonymous desk-drone as alluded to above), I've been at the receiving end of a wide range of 'incoming expertise', and a wide range of how complicated the error actually was. From the "Fonzi" repair (Repair Manouevre Number One: Hit it! ...works surprisingly often) and the "Roy" (Repair Manouevre Number Two: "Have you tried turning it off and back on again..?") to the truly weird (the reason why one particular line-printer wouldn't print off one particular client's reports on one particular day... we worked out why, but as the problem wouldn't arise the next working day we didn't change the deliberately obtuse thing  work, just suggested those printouts could wait a day, and made an internal note in case any other client's work on any future day stopped printing on any other printer due to a similar confluence of issues). Plenty of them were ''at least partially'' PEBCAK issues, though some of those users really did pride themselves over having tried "all the obvious fixes", despite being proven otherwise from a thirty-second desk-visit after the five minute talk-through over the phone hadn't gone well at all... [[Special:Contributions/82.132.237.210|82.132.237.210]] 15:27, 3 December 2025 (UTC)
+:When I've been the tech-support (internal, only, so not the same kind of anonymous desk-drone as alluded to above), I've been at the receiving end of a wide range of 'incoming expertise', and a wide range of how complicated the error actually was. From the "Fonzi" repair (Repair Manouevre Number One: Hit it! ...works surprisingly often) and the "Roy" (Repair Manouevre Number Two: "Have you tried turning it off and back on again..?") to the truly weird (the reason why one particular line-printer wouldn't print off one particular client's reports on one particular day... we worked out why, but as the problem wouldn't arise the next working day we didn't change the deliberately obtuse thing  work, just suggested those printouts could wait a day, and made an internal note in case any other client's work on any future day stopped printing on any other printer due to a similar confluence of issues). Plenty of them were ''at least partially'' PEBCAK issues, though some of those users really did pride themselves over having tried "all the obvious fixes", despite being proven otherwise from a thirty-second desk-visit after the five minute talk-through over the phone hadn't gone well at all... [[Special:Contributions/82.132.237.210|82.132.237.210]] 15:27, 3 December 2025 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:27, 3 December 2025
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	:"What about #2 ***?"		:"What about #2 ***?"
	::Why do they insist on suggesting solutions that I've already told them don't work? [[User:Beechmere\|Beechmere]] ([[User talk:Beechmere\|talk]]) 02:43, 3 December 2025 (UTC)		::Why do they insist on suggesting solutions that I've already told them don't work? [[User:Beechmere\|Beechmere]] ([[User talk:Beechmere\|talk]]) 02:43, 3 December 2025 (UTC)
		+	::Because you haven't? They may or may not have a script to follow, or actually know their thing, but (unless you've abbreviated your introductory description) they've got a voice at the other end only saying "the most obvious solutions" have been tried. But are these the obvious solutions to the actual expert (or the maybe-'experts' who wrote the support-workflow script), or just have skipped the real First Action Points entirely. They probably have to deal with many misconceptions from every (self-professed) 'technicaly-adept' voice on the end of the line. (Or, if script-led, don't recognise your more homegrown terminology as it relates to what they only know from what they've occasionally had described to them on their on-screen 'expert flowchart'.)
		+	::And they've really got to (e.g.) ask ''whether'' you've actually plugged the printer in (in times past, Parallel Port; these days, USB or even network cable; unless it's a wireless connectivity of your choiceñ) because all the rest of the checks (and which driver/config redo to use) isn't going to help much if there's no way that the thing that's supposed to be talking can be heard by the thing that's supposed to be listening.
		+	::(Notwithstanding the old "yes, it's definitely plugged in!", which can sometimes be resolved by "but have you tried plugging the cable in the other way round?"... ''Occasionally'' a bidirectional cable or a symmetrical plug actually works one way round when it won't the other (though I'd suspect cable/connector damage, in such cases, and that's a temporary fix at best), but amazingly it sometimes works(!) with an asymmetric connection (whether D-Sub, USB-pre-C, etc). Because the know-it-all who was adamant that it was plugged in only actually checked when asked to fiddle with it, now plugs it in the 'other' (i.e. one and only) way round and then happily/resentfully accepts that it's started working.)
		+	::That said, as a tech-type myself I do groan at being dealt with by people for whom my 'obvious' and tech-grounded explanation of the steps I've tried so far seem to be heard as nothing much far from "one of cross-beam's gone out of skew on treadle!", just because they can't match my words to the equally descriptive words from their script/training/experience, and so we may have to bounce around a few terms to find common ground (ethernet cable or patch cable, etc... you know, RJ45 ends, etc, and if it's a crossover one I'd tell you) to get onto the same (''early'') page in the troubleshooting handbook.
		+	::When I've been the tech-support (internal, only, so not the same kind of anonymous desk-drone as alluded to above), I've been at the receiving end of a wide range of 'incoming expertise', and a wide range of how complicated the error actually was. From the "Fonzi" repair (Repair Manouevre Number One: Hit it! ...works surprisingly often) and the "Roy" (Repair Manouevre Number Two: "Have you tried turning it off and back on again..?") to the truly weird (the reason why one particular line-printer wouldn't print off one particular client's reports on one particular day... we worked out why, but as the problem wouldn't arise the next working day we didn't change the deliberately obtuse thing work, just suggested those printouts could wait a day, and made an internal note in case any other client's work on any future day stopped printing on any other printer due to a similar confluence of issues). Plenty of them were ''at least partially'' PEBCAK issues, though some of those users really did pride themselves over having tried "all the obvious fixes", despite being proven otherwise from a thirty-second desk-visit after the five minute talk-through over the phone hadn't gone well at all... [[Special:Contributions/82.132.237.210\|82.132.237.210]] 15:27, 3 December 2025 (UTC)

@@ Line 23: / Line 23: @@
 I always try to solve problems myself before calling the helpdesk.  This involves applying the most obvious fix, then the next most obvious.
 When these fail (as I expected), I call.
-"Hello, Service Desk, ** speaking, how may I help you?"
+:"Hello, Service Desk, ** speaking, how may I help you?"
-"I'm having trouble trying to do *** on your website.  But I've already tried the most obvious solutions, so don't bother suggesting them."
+:"I'm having trouble trying to do *** on your website.  But I've already tried the most obvious solutions, so don't bother suggesting them."
-"OK.  Have you tried #1 *** ?"
+:"OK.  Have you tried #1 *** ?"
-"Yes, I said I've tried that."
+:"Yes, I said I've tried that."
-"What about #2 ***?"
+:"What about #2 ***?"
-(sighing) "Yes, of course, I tried that too."
+::Why do they insist on suggesting solutions that I've already told them don't work?   [[User:Beechmere|Beechmere]] ([[User talk:Beechmere|talk]]) 02:43, 3 December 2025 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:43, 3 December 2025
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	Companies can't seem to understand that literally the only reason people call their customer service line is because THEY NEED TO TALK TO AN ACTUAL HUMAN BECAUSE THE COMPUTER IS INADIQUATE!--[[Special:Contributions/136.226.7.187\|136.226.7.187]] 20:26, 2 December 2025 (UTC)		Companies can't seem to understand that literally the only reason people call their customer service line is because THEY NEED TO TALK TO AN ACTUAL HUMAN BECAUSE THE COMPUTER IS INADIQUATE!--[[Special:Contributions/136.226.7.187\|136.226.7.187]] 20:26, 2 December 2025 (UTC)
	:But think of the glorious profits we can make by firing humans who need our jobs to survive! <span style="font-family: Times New Roman, serif; font-size: 16px;">--'''''[[User:DollarStoreBa'al\|<span style="color:#023020">DollarStoreBa'al</span>]]<sup>[[User Talk:DollarStoreBa'al\|<span style="color:#000080">Converse</span>]]</sup></span> 20:44, 2 December 2025 (UTC)		:But think of the glorious profits we can make by firing humans who need our jobs to survive! <span style="font-family: Times New Roman, serif; font-size: 16px;">--'''''[[User:DollarStoreBa'al\|<span style="color:#023020">DollarStoreBa'al</span>]]<sup>[[User Talk:DollarStoreBa'al\|<span style="color:#000080">Converse</span>]]</sup></span> 20:44, 2 December 2025 (UTC)
		+
		+	I always try to solve problems myself before calling the helpdesk. This involves applying the most obvious fix, then the next most obvious.
		+	When these fail (as I expected), I call.
		+	"Hello, Service Desk, ** speaking, how may I help you?"
		+	"I'm having trouble trying to do *** on your website. But I've already tried the most obvious solutions, so don't bother suggesting them."
		+	"OK. Have you tried #1 *** ?"
		+	"Yes, I said I've tried that."
		+	"What about #2 ***?"
		+	(sighing) "Yes, of course, I tried that too."
		+	Why do they insist on suggesting solutions that I've already told them don't work? [[User:Beechmere\|Beechmere]] ([[User talk:Beechmere\|talk]]) 02:43, 3 December 2025 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:44, 2 December 2025
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	Companies can't seem to understand that literally the only reason people call their customer service line is because THEY NEED TO TALK TO AN ACTUAL HUMAN BECAUSE THE COMPUTER IS INADIQUATE!--[[Special:Contributions/136.226.7.187\|136.226.7.187]] 20:26, 2 December 2025 (UTC)		Companies can't seem to understand that literally the only reason people call their customer service line is because THEY NEED TO TALK TO AN ACTUAL HUMAN BECAUSE THE COMPUTER IS INADIQUATE!--[[Special:Contributions/136.226.7.187\|136.226.7.187]] 20:26, 2 December 2025 (UTC)
		+	:But think of the glorious profits we can make by firing humans who need our jobs to survive! <span style="font-family: Times New Roman, serif; font-size: 16px;">--'''''[[User:DollarStoreBa'al\|<span style="color:#023020">DollarStoreBa'al</span>]]<sup>[[User Talk:DollarStoreBa'al\|<span style="color:#000080">Converse</span>]]</sup></span> 20:44, 2 December 2025 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:26, 2 December 2025
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	I would replace the "Throw electronics into sea" step with "As soon as the call is no longer on hold, say the website the hold message suggests ''is not working''". Throwing devices into sea causes e-waste. [[Special:Contributions/2001:4C4E:1C14:9800:F167:89F7:6CCE:353B\|2001:4C4E:1C14:9800:F167:89F7:6CCE:353B]] 08:30, 2 December 2025 (UTC)		I would replace the "Throw electronics into sea" step with "As soon as the call is no longer on hold, say the website the hold message suggests ''is not working''". Throwing devices into sea causes e-waste. [[Special:Contributions/2001:4C4E:1C14:9800:F167:89F7:6CCE:353B\|2001:4C4E:1C14:9800:F167:89F7:6CCE:353B]] 08:30, 2 December 2025 (UTC)
	:Who cares about that, when the big problem is still [[1751: Movie Folder\|all those Titanics]] to watch out for? [[Special:Contributions/82.132.237.203\|82.132.237.203]] 16:25, 2 December 2025 (UTC) ;)		:Who cares about that, when the big problem is still [[1751: Movie Folder\|all those Titanics]] to watch out for? [[Special:Contributions/82.132.237.203\|82.132.237.203]] 16:25, 2 December 2025 (UTC) ;)
		+
		+	Companies can't seem to understand that literally the only reason people call their customer service line is because THEY NEED TO TALK TO AN ACTUAL HUMAN BECAUSE THE COMPUTER IS INADIQUATE!--[[Special:Contributions/136.226.7.187\|136.226.7.187]] 20:26, 2 December 2025 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:25, 2 December 2025
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	I would replace the "Throw electronics into sea" step with "As soon as the call is no longer on hold, say the website the hold message suggests ''is not working''". Throwing devices into sea causes e-waste. [[Special:Contributions/2001:4C4E:1C14:9800:F167:89F7:6CCE:353B\|2001:4C4E:1C14:9800:F167:89F7:6CCE:353B]] 08:30, 2 December 2025 (UTC)		I would replace the "Throw electronics into sea" step with "As soon as the call is no longer on hold, say the website the hold message suggests ''is not working''". Throwing devices into sea causes e-waste. [[Special:Contributions/2001:4C4E:1C14:9800:F167:89F7:6CCE:353B\|2001:4C4E:1C14:9800:F167:89F7:6CCE:353B]] 08:30, 2 December 2025 (UTC)
		+	:Who cares about that, when the big problem is still [[1751: Movie Folder\|all those Titanics]] to watch out for? [[Special:Contributions/82.132.237.203\|82.132.237.203]] 16:25, 2 December 2025 (UTC) ;)

@@ Line 6: / Line 6: @@
 :I tend to agree, but it does say "live agents" earlier so it could also be a reference to live but non-native language speakers in a foreign call center. [[Special:Contributions/47.248.235.170|47.248.235.170]] 20:24, 1 December 2025 (UTC)Pat
 ::Real-time bots are live but not ''alive''. [[Special:Contributions/64.114.211.79|64.114.211.79]] 21:26, 1 December 2025 (UTC)
-:::I feel like for some certain definition of 'alive' bots could be considered alive. They are (kind of?)sentient, which just means they can think. 'sapient', on the other hand, means that he/she/they is self-aware. While it is generally considered that bots are not live, this may not always be true. Depending on how advanced AI ever get, (most probable answer: not very) they may one day be able to evolve and reproduce. They already perform metabolism and homeostasis (power and fans). They have structure, they are made of computer chips (im not a computer nerd, so this probably isn't accurate). They react to stimuli. Honestly, all that needs to let them be considered 'alive' is for them to be able to make other AI and for those AI to be slightly different, which they kind of already can. Besides being made of metal, there is no real reason to claim that an AI isn't 'alive', that's just what mainstream media claims. ([[User:Kirinhatchi|Kirinhatch]]|[[User talk:Kirinhatchi|talk]])--[[User:Kirinhatchi|Kirinhatchi]] ([[User talk:Kirinhatchi|talk]]) 01:05, 2 December 2025 (UTC)
+:::I feel like for some certain definition of 'alive' bots could be considered alive. They are (kind of?)sentient, which just means they can think. 'sapient', on the other hand, means that he/she/they is self-aware. While it is generally considered that bots are not live, this may not always be true. Depending on how advanced AI ever get, (most probable answer: not very) they may one day be able to evolve and reproduce. They already perform metabolism and homeostasis (power and fans). They have structure, they are made of computer chips (im not a computer nerd, so this probably isn't accurate). They react to stimuli. Honestly, all that needs to let them be considered 'alive' is for them to be able to make other AI and for those AI to be slightly different, which they kind of already can. Besides being made of metal, there is no real reason to claim that an AI isn't 'alive', that's just what mainstream media claims. --[[User:Kirinhatchi|Kirinhatchi]] ([[User talk:Kirinhatchi|talk]]) 01:05, 2 December 2025 (UTC)
 :::They're certainly live as in "live TV" and/or a "live electricity socket", as in active/functional/doing-what-they-are-designed-to-do. [[Special:Contributions/78.144.255.82|78.144.255.82]] 01:44, 2 December 2025 (UTC)

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	I have fixed several spelling errors. [[User:RadiantRainwing\|RadiantRainwing]] ([[User talk:RadiantRainwing\|talk]]) 02:49, 2 December 2025 (UTC)		I have fixed several spelling errors. [[User:RadiantRainwing\|RadiantRainwing]] ([[User talk:RadiantRainwing\|talk]]) 02:49, 2 December 2025 (UTC)
		+
		+	I would replace the "Throw electronics into sea" step with "As soon as the call is no longer on hold, say the website the hold message suggests ''is not working''". Throwing devices into sea causes e-waste. [[Special:Contributions/2001:4C4E:1C14:9800:F167:89F7:6CCE:353B\|2001:4C4E:1C14:9800:F167:89F7:6CCE:353B]] 08:30, 2 December 2025 (UTC)