Talk:3193: Sailing Rigs - Revision history

92.239.132.210 at 03:00, 23 February 2026

2026-02-23T03:00:39Z

Whoop whoop pull up at 15:36, 29 January 2026

2026-01-29T15:36:18Z

167.103.126.166: Flettner rotors require some power from the ship's main propulsion to turn them. This wouldn't be possible in a sailing scenario ~~~~

2026-01-15T20:57:38Z

Flettner rotors require some power from the ship's main propulsion to turn them. This wouldn't be possible in a sailing scenario ~~~~

92.23.2.208: /* Cropped images */

2026-01-14T21:43:36Z

‎Cropped images

JohnHawkinson: /* Cropped images */ hey, we lost the hand-written captions :(

2026-01-14T20:38:35Z

‎Cropped images: hey, we lost the hand-written captions :(

92.23.2.208 at 20:22, 14 January 2026

2026-01-14T20:22:34Z

82.132.238.61 at 17:32, 14 January 2026

2026-01-14T17:32:36Z

82.132.238.61 at 17:28, 14 January 2026

2026-01-14T17:28:33Z

98.110.175.81 at 16:56, 14 January 2026

2026-01-14T16:56:08Z

Kynde: /* Cropped images */

2026-01-14T16:35:52Z

‎Cropped images

@@ Line 14: / Line 14: @@
 :Perhaps.  I presume that the entire comic is in service to the pun in the title text. [[User:Philhower|Philhower]] ([[User talk:Philhower|talk]]) 13:44, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
 ::Originaly the title text was made after the comic, as an extra joke that is not originally part of the plan. This I have seen Randall say at some point. So I would not expect he came up with the pun and then the made the comic. Of course he could have changed his mind. But there are several other jokes and references in the 18 labels of the boats, so it is not only the catch22 joke anyway. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 16:19, 14 January 2026 (UTC)
 Wikipedia does have a kite rig web page.  That's a real thing, but usually not as pretty as here.  And I suppose you could do helium balloons.  Robert Carnegie rja.carnegie@gmail.com [[Special:Contributions/85.115.54.203|85.115.54.203]] 11:46, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:36, 29 January 2026
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	Flettner rotors require some power from the ship's main propulsion to turn them. This wouldn't be possible in a sailing scenario [[Special:Contributions/167.103.126.166\|167.103.126.166]] 20:57, 15 January 2026 (UTC)		Flettner rotors require some power from the ship's main propulsion to turn them. This wouldn't be possible in a sailing scenario [[Special:Contributions/167.103.126.166\|167.103.126.166]] 20:57, 15 January 2026 (UTC)
		+	:What if you drove them from a ship-mounted wind turbine? [[User:Whoop whoop pull up\|Whoop whoop pull up]] ([[User talk:Whoop whoop pull up\|talk]]) 15:36, 29 January 2026 (UTC)

	I see Randall has taken up a new hobby :D [[Special:Contributions/152.115.135.109\|152.115.135.109]] 08:21, 13 January 2026 (UTC)		I see Randall has taken up a new hobby :D [[Special:Contributions/152.115.135.109\|152.115.135.109]] 08:21, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

@@ Line 7: / Line 7: @@
 Flettner Rig may refer to https://xkcd.com/3119/ [[Special:Contributions/73.225.91.80|73.225.91.80]] 06:19, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
 :Yes, but also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flettner_rotor [[Special:Contributions/130.76.187.47|130.76.187.47]] 12:57, 13 January 2026 (UTC)
 I see Randall has taken up a new hobby :D [[Special:Contributions/152.115.135.109|152.115.135.109]] 08:21, 13 January 2026 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:43, 14 January 2026
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	Of course I am biased, but one of the things lost in the [[User:DollarStoreBa'al\|@DollarStoreBa'al]] [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=3193%3A_Sailing_Rigs&type=revision&diff=403475&oldid=403452 changes], which I had not noticed initially, is the titles of the sub-images in Randall's hand-font. I included those initially for a reason, and I think the chart looks better with them. Others may disagree, of course, but again, seems like the kind of change that would merit discussion before doing, especially when it's done in a way that is hard to change (see my overly-repeated points above). [p.s. I didn't mean the image format was 1bpp, I meant the contents were notionally such; although I suppose they do have some antialiasing. ] [[User:JohnHawkinson\|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson\|talk]]) 20:38, 14 January 2026 (UTC)		Of course I am biased, but one of the things lost in the [[User:DollarStoreBa'al\|@DollarStoreBa'al]] [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=3193%3A_Sailing_Rigs&type=revision&diff=403475&oldid=403452 changes], which I had not noticed initially, is the titles of the sub-images in Randall's hand-font. I included those initially for a reason, and I think the chart looks better with them. Others may disagree, of course, but again, seems like the kind of change that would merit discussion before doing, especially when it's done in a way that is hard to change (see my overly-repeated points above). [p.s. I didn't mean the image format was 1bpp, I meant the contents were notionally such; although I suppose they do have some antialiasing. ] [[User:JohnHawkinson\|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson\|talk]]) 20:38, 14 January 2026 (UTC)
		+	:Never saw that version. But that just makes the images taller (for a given degree of scaling) and adds nothing to the column that has that same text as non-image data. Unless there's some subtle joke in the actual style of writing that I'm missing (like deliberately bad-kerning, that might not have been replicated in the pure text).
		+	:But that's just my opinion. Maybe someone else thinks its more necessaary.
		+	:Also, using the {{template\|diff}}-template might be something that you'd want to use. i.e. "one of the things lost in the {{diff\|403475\|changes}}, which I had not noticed initially"... Just in case you weren't aware of it. [[Special:Contributions/92.23.2.208\|92.23.2.208]] 21:43, 14 January 2026 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:38, 14 January 2026
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	:Ok, guys and gals. All images are now specified for display by height alone ("x<number>px"), that being the actual image height ''halved'' (rounded down, where that'd be fractional). On the assumption that they weren't rescaled between screenshotting and uploading, but it doesn't look like they are. This way, they aren't larger than they display on the {{template\|comic}}-header picture of the whole comic, and the "longtail" image isn't so wide as to dominate the table. We don't need to waste space with 'top-definition' images.		:Ok, guys and gals. All images are now specified for display by height alone ("x<number>px"), that being the actual image height ''halved'' (rounded down, where that'd be fractional). On the assumption that they weren't rescaled between screenshotting and uploading, but it doesn't look like they are. This way, they aren't larger than they display on the {{template\|comic}}-header picture of the whole comic, and the "longtail" image isn't so wide as to dominate the table. We don't need to waste space with 'top-definition' images.
	:Tested on both laptop and Android browsers, they're always still large enough to be easily recognisable and representative. Also, I centred the cell contents, for further aesthetic reasons. [[Special:Contributions/92.23.2.208\|92.23.2.208]] 20:22, 14 January 2026 (UTC)		:Tested on both laptop and Android browsers, they're always still large enough to be easily recognisable and representative. Also, I centred the cell contents, for further aesthetic reasons. [[Special:Contributions/92.23.2.208\|92.23.2.208]] 20:22, 14 January 2026 (UTC)
		+
		+	Of course I am biased, but one of the things lost in the [[User:DollarStoreBa'al\|@DollarStoreBa'al]] [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=3193%3A_Sailing_Rigs&type=revision&diff=403475&oldid=403452 changes], which I had not noticed initially, is the titles of the sub-images in Randall's hand-font. I included those initially for a reason, and I think the chart looks better with them. Others may disagree, of course, but again, seems like the kind of change that would merit discussion before doing, especially when it's done in a way that is hard to change (see my overly-repeated points above). [p.s. I didn't mean the image format was 1bpp, I meant the contents were notionally such; although I suppose they do have some antialiasing. ] [[User:JohnHawkinson\|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson\|talk]]) 20:38, 14 January 2026 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:22, 14 January 2026
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	:For each layer-separated item, export as an image in their own right. Though I'd personally also at this point (after all possible messing with the original antialiased 'fuzziness') descale the _2x-scaled subimages (consistently) to be smaller. Perhaps to be like the non-_2x one. Right now, my view of the illustrated table in the Explanation has ''far'' larger images of each ship than they are in the comic image, though that might just be peculiar to this browser on this device. But you don't need more than the basic likeness of each subimage. It could stand to be half the size of the comic's appearence, whether by dynamic scaling or the base image being rescaled.		:For each layer-separated item, export as an image in their own right. Though I'd personally also at this point (after all possible messing with the original antialiased 'fuzziness') descale the _2x-scaled subimages (consistently) to be smaller. Perhaps to be like the non-_2x one. Right now, my view of the illustrated table in the Explanation has ''far'' larger images of each ship than they are in the comic image, though that might just be peculiar to this browser on this device. But you don't need more than the basic likeness of each subimage. It could stand to be half the size of the comic's appearence, whether by dynamic scaling or the base image being rescaled.
	:But as I'm not an authorised uploader, here, I've spent about the same time explaining what I'd do as I'd probably need to do this whole thing. And it doesn't matter as it's been done, and well enough (overscaling issues aside) for all practical purposes. Spending time with screenshotting (which is so much more complicated these days than it used to be) or hovering a image-editor over pixels to record their relevent coordinates (I did a lot of that for [[3186: Truly Universal Outlet]], for something I did for my own entertainment - and I recon that Randall got the M-type plug wrong ''plus'' ignored the second L-type) is your choice, if you prefer to do it that way. [[Special:Contributions/82.132.238.61\|82.132.238.61]] 17:28, 14 January 2026 (UTC)		:But as I'm not an authorised uploader, here, I've spent about the same time explaining what I'd do as I'd probably need to do this whole thing. And it doesn't matter as it's been done, and well enough (overscaling issues aside) for all practical purposes. Spending time with screenshotting (which is so much more complicated these days than it used to be) or hovering a image-editor over pixels to record their relevent coordinates (I did a lot of that for [[3186: Truly Universal Outlet]], for something I did for my own entertainment - and I recon that Randall got the M-type plug wrong ''plus'' ignored the second L-type) is your choice, if you prefer to do it that way. [[Special:Contributions/82.132.238.61\|82.132.238.61]] 17:28, 14 January 2026 (UTC)
		+
		+	:Ok, guys and gals. All images are now specified for display by height alone ("x<number>px"), that being the actual image height ''halved'' (rounded down, where that'd be fractional). On the assumption that they weren't rescaled between screenshotting and uploading, but it doesn't look like they are. This way, they aren't larger than they display on the {{template\|comic}}-header picture of the whole comic, and the "longtail" image isn't so wide as to dominate the table. We don't need to waste space with 'top-definition' images.
		+	:Tested on both laptop and Android browsers, they're always still large enough to be easily recognisable and representative. Also, I centred the cell contents, for further aesthetic reasons. [[Special:Contributions/92.23.2.208\|92.23.2.208]] 20:22, 14 January 2026 (UTC)

@@ Line 61: / Line 61: @@
 :I really like the table as it is now. I did not see the first version. But the current version looks like what we have done several times before, and that is easy for anyone to understand and edit. I have no idea what the other way is. But I have made tables like this when I was more active. It is not important what the image looks like in the table as you have the full comic above. It is just to make sure you know which boat is being discussed. And people do not read the entire discussion before making changes, I don't. It has become quite long this one. And yes you do not get any notification if someone replies here. If you need to get hold of someone's attention posting on their talk page is the best chance. That is also they way to reach me, the only active admin at the moment. But I'm not very active. But if someone posts om my page I will get an e-mail and then I will read it. I try to make a mention of what I do when I make larger changes, but it can fail. I do hope this doesn't deter you from making contributions another time though! Great you are invested in it. But personally I think this simpler way is the way to go here. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 16:35, 14 January 2026 (UTC)
-:You know what I'd do, for the individual images? Take the _2x (which is greyscale, BTW, not 1bpp - possibly even full colour with nothing but greyscales, if you look into it). In something like GIMP, ''loosely'' select each ship-shape by your favourite colour-selection-tool on the black bit that doesn't select ''every'' bit of black (or unselect the stray bits, the expand selection by a given small number of pixels, whatever number looks good. Copy and paste to new layer, then Crop that layer to selection. Rinse, repeat, takes just a few clicks (or keyboard combos) per item, slightly more complicated if there weren't such a clear containing rectangle - so not quite so easy for Circuit Diagram, but increases the effort from maybe 10 seconds per 'extract' to maybe 15-20 seconds. It'd take longer to start GIMP up in the first place, waiting for the splash-logo to go away and then for it to briefly fish around for any add-ons that need loading.
+:You know what I'd do, for the individual images? Take the _2x (which is greyscale, BTW, not 1bpp - possibly even full colour with nothing but greyscales, if you look into it). In something like GIMP, select each ship-shape by your favourite magic colour-selection-tool on the black bit that doesn't select ''every'' bit of black (or unselect the stray bits that the default threshold included), then expand the selection by a given small number of pixels, whatever number looks good to give it an aesthetic boundary. Copy and paste to new layer, that layer being cropped to the selection, then floodfill white around the edge transparent edging. Rinse, repeat, takes just a few clicks (or keyboard combos) per item, slightly more complicated if there weren't such a clear containing rectangle - so not quite so easy for Circuit Diagram, but increases the effort from maybe 10 seconds per 'extract' to maybe 15-20 seconds. It'd take longer to start GIMP up in the first place, waiting for the splash-logo to go away and then for it to briefly fish around for any add-ons that need loading.
 :If you feel like creating your own scripted tool for this, even less time per instance, but see [[1205: Is It Worth the Time?]]... ;)
 :For each layer-separated item, export as an image in their own right. Though I'd personally also at this point (after all possible messing with the original antialiased 'fuzziness') descale the _2x-scaled subimages (consistently) to be smaller. Perhaps to be like the non-_2x one. Right now, my view of the illustrated table in the Explanation has ''far'' larger images of each ship than they are in the comic image, though that might just be peculiar to this browser on this device. But you don't need more than the basic likeness of each subimage. It could stand to be half the size of the comic's appearence, whether by dynamic scaling or the base image being rescaled.
 :But as I'm not an authorised uploader, here, I've spent about the same time explaining what I'd do as I'd probably need to do this whole thing. And it doesn't matter as it's been done, and well enough (overscaling issues aside) for all practical purposes. Spending time with screenshotting (which is so much more complicated these days than it used to be) or hovering a image-editor over pixels to record their relevent coordinates (I did a lot of that for [[3186: Truly Universal Outlet]], for something I did for my own entertainment - and I recon that Randall got the M-type plug wrong ''plus'' ignored the second L-type) is your choice, if you prefer to do it that way. [[Special:Contributions/82.132.238.61|82.132.238.61]] 17:28, 14 January 2026 (UTC)

@@ Line 23: / Line 23: @@
 :: Are you sure it isn't a boomarang? [[Special:Contributions/82.13.184.33|82.13.184.33]] 09:54, 14 January 2026 (UTC)
 :::You're probably thinking of a boo!meringue, a surprising way to use egg-whites. [[Special:Contributions/82.132.238.61|82.132.238.61]] 14:12, 14 January 2026 (UTC)
 The definition of yawl is wrong. What matters is not position of mizzen relative to rudder post, but to water line. Ketches often have the mizzen mast behind the rudder. {{unsigned ip|46.114.57.23|15:23, 13 January 2026 (UTC)}}
@@ Line 61: / Line 60: @@
 {{outdent|5}} [[User:DollarStoreBa'al|@DollarStoreBa'al]]…yikes? Screenshots and resizing? Those are both methods that can lose fidelity…it's not worth agonizing overmuch, but as a general practice anything that degrades the image quality is something to be avoided (given that these are 1bpp b/w images, such concerns are at their nadir)…I had assumed they were native crops. Re longsail, my point is that Randall's artistic intent is in conflict with automatic scaling and I don't think the images should be scaled independently of each other. I'm not sure how you can assess participation, since I don't know why there would be much more attention to the images now that they are "done" (but the burden of uploading additional images with different crops if someone wanted to change one seems to me a lot higher than changing one number in the wikitext of a template). I can't predict the future, but I can definitely say that it had a substantial negative impact on ''me'' (especially to hear it's because of how you interpreted my own comment on the talk page!). I regret that's being expressed here in the text now. To answer your question, I measured the pixels by drawing ruler guides on the master image and reading them off. I don't think the precision speaks to participation in any way (not sure if that's what was meant by "Plus,"). [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 16:13, 14 January 2026 (UTC)
 :I really like the table as it is now. I did not see the first version. But the current version looks like what we have done several times before, and that is easy for anyone to understand and edit. I have no idea what the other way is. But I have made tables like this when I was more active. It is not important what the image looks like in the table as you have the full comic above. It is just to make sure you know which boat is being discussed. And people do not read the entire discussion before making changes, I don't. It has become quite long this one. And yes you do not get any notification if someone replies here. If you need to get hold of someone's attention posting on their talk page is the best chance. That is also they way to reach me, the only active admin at the moment. But I'm not very active. But if someone posts om my page I will get an e-mail and then I will read it. I try to make a mention of what I do when I make larger changes, but it can fail. I do hope this doesn't deter you from making contributions another time though! Great you are invested in it. But personally I think this simpler way is the way to go here. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 16:35, 14 January 2026 (UTC)

← Older revision		Revision as of 16:35, 14 January 2026
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	:::::Also, I believe this method actually positively affects people's willingness to participate. It makes the way to do this much clearer (and easier) compared to pixel measurements. Plus, how did you measure the pixels? Those were pretty precise measurements you had.<span style="font-family: Times New Roman, serif; font-size: 16px;">--'''''[[User:DollarStoreBaal44\|<span style="color:#023020">DollarStoreBa'al</span>]][[User Talk:DollarStoreBaal44\|<sup><span style="color:#000080">Converse</span></sup>]]'''''</span> 15:43, 14 January 2026 (UTC)		:::::Also, I believe this method actually positively affects people's willingness to participate. It makes the way to do this much clearer (and easier) compared to pixel measurements. Plus, how did you measure the pixels? Those were pretty precise measurements you had.<span style="font-family: Times New Roman, serif; font-size: 16px;">--'''''[[User:DollarStoreBaal44\|<span style="color:#023020">DollarStoreBa'al</span>]][[User Talk:DollarStoreBaal44\|<sup><span style="color:#000080">Converse</span></sup>]]'''''</span> 15:43, 14 January 2026 (UTC)
	{{outdent\|5}} [[User:DollarStoreBa'al\|@DollarStoreBa'al]]…yikes? Screenshots and resizing? Those are both methods that can lose fidelity…it's not worth agonizing overmuch, but as a general practice anything that degrades the image quality is something to be avoided (given that these are 1bpp b/w images, such concerns are at their nadir)…I had assumed they were native crops. Re longsail, my point is that Randall's artistic intent is in conflict with automatic scaling and I don't think the images should be scaled independently of each other. I'm not sure how you can assess participation, since I don't know why there would be much more attention to the images now that they are "done" (but the burden of uploading additional images with different crops if someone wanted to change one seems to me a lot higher than changing one number in the wikitext of a template). I can't predict the future, but I can definitely say that it had a substantial negative impact on ''me'' (especially to hear it's because of how you interpreted my own comment on the talk page!). I regret that's being expressed here in the text now. To answer your question, I measured the pixels by drawing ruler guides on the master image and reading them off. I don't think the precision speaks to participation in any way (not sure if that's what was meant by "Plus,"). [[User:JohnHawkinson\|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson\|talk]]) 16:13, 14 January 2026 (UTC)		{{outdent\|5}} [[User:DollarStoreBa'al\|@DollarStoreBa'al]]…yikes? Screenshots and resizing? Those are both methods that can lose fidelity…it's not worth agonizing overmuch, but as a general practice anything that degrades the image quality is something to be avoided (given that these are 1bpp b/w images, such concerns are at their nadir)…I had assumed they were native crops. Re longsail, my point is that Randall's artistic intent is in conflict with automatic scaling and I don't think the images should be scaled independently of each other. I'm not sure how you can assess participation, since I don't know why there would be much more attention to the images now that they are "done" (but the burden of uploading additional images with different crops if someone wanted to change one seems to me a lot higher than changing one number in the wikitext of a template). I can't predict the future, but I can definitely say that it had a substantial negative impact on ''me'' (especially to hear it's because of how you interpreted my own comment on the talk page!). I regret that's being expressed here in the text now. To answer your question, I measured the pixels by drawing ruler guides on the master image and reading them off. I don't think the precision speaks to participation in any way (not sure if that's what was meant by "Plus,"). [[User:JohnHawkinson\|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson\|talk]]) 16:13, 14 January 2026 (UTC)
		+	:I really like the table as it is now. I did not see the first version. But the current version looks like what we have done several times before, and that is easy for anyone to understand and edit. I have no idea what the other way is. But I have made tables like this when I was more active. It is not important what the image looks like in the table as you have the full comic above. It is just to make sure you know which boat is being discussed. And people do not read the entire discussion before making changes, I don't. It has become quite long this one. And yes you do not get any notification if someone replies here. If you need to get hold of someone's attention posting on their talk page is the best chance. That is also they way to reach me, the only active admin at the moment. But I'm not very active. But if someone posts om my page I will get an e-mail and then I will read it. I try to make a mention of what I do when I make larger changes, but it can fail. I do hope this doesn't deter you from making contributions another time though! Great you are invested in it. But personally I think this simpler way is the way to go here. --[[User:Kynde\|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde\|talk]]) 16:35, 14 January 2026 (UTC)