Talk:703: Honor Societies - Revision history

FaviFake: spam

2025-06-12T13:07:05Z

spam

ExplainEuge.ca at 06:51, 12 June 2025

2025-06-12T06:51:56Z

172.71.26.43: Unsigned reply was unsigned. (And unindented, so presuming not a direct reply cascading off what was above.)

2025-03-07T01:46:03Z

Unsigned reply was unsigned. (And unindented, so presuming not a direct reply cascading off what was above.)

162.158.33.252: The initial statement in discussion uses an unsourced definition of tautology and treats it as defacto the only definition of a tautology.

2025-03-06T22:11:22Z

The initial statement in discussion uses an unsourced definition of tautology and treats it as defacto the only definition of a tautology.

172.71.223.91 at 01:57, 22 April 2024

2024-04-22T01:57:23Z

172.70.110.209: Defining intuitionism

2022-03-18T01:15:01Z

Defining intuitionism

Nitpicking: Science!

2022-01-17T13:00:42Z

Science!

Yfmcpxpj: Hairbun vs. Science Girl

2020-09-21T00:22:30Z

Hairbun vs. Science Girl

173.245.54.38 at 07:02, 15 February 2016

2016-02-15T07:02:38Z

108.162.216.38 at 16:44, 11 February 2014

2014-02-11T16:44:51Z

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	A tautology according to Merriam Webster is 1: needless repetition of an idea, statement, or word or 2: a statement that is true by virtue of its logical form alone. Strictly speaking all of these are tautologies. {{unsigned ip\|162.158.33.252\|22:11, 6 March 2025}}		A tautology according to Merriam Webster is 1: needless repetition of an idea, statement, or word or 2: a statement that is true by virtue of its logical form alone. Strictly speaking all of these are tautologies. {{unsigned ip\|162.158.33.252\|22:11, 6 March 2025}}
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−	Euge.ca comic 28 is a reference to tautology. (The first line was actually "Sol, a needle pulling thread") [[User:ExplainEuge.ca\|ExplainEuge.ca]] ([[User talk:ExplainEuge.ca\|talk]]) 06:51, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

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	A tautology according to Merriam Webster is 1: needless repetition of an idea, statement, or word or 2: a statement that is true by virtue of its logical form alone. Strictly speaking all of these are tautologies. {{unsigned ip\|162.158.33.252\|22:11, 6 March 2025}}		A tautology according to Merriam Webster is 1: needless repetition of an idea, statement, or word or 2: a statement that is true by virtue of its logical form alone. Strictly speaking all of these are tautologies. {{unsigned ip\|162.158.33.252\|22:11, 6 March 2025}}
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		+	Euge.ca comic 28 is a reference to tautology. (The first line was actually "Sol, a needle pulling thread") [[User:ExplainEuge.ca\|ExplainEuge.ca]] ([[User talk:ExplainEuge.ca\|talk]]) 06:51, 12 June 2025 (UTC)

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 The same goes for 'The first rule of the tautology club is the first rule of the tautology club' - It's just a long way of saying "This is the first rule of the tautology club' - which can be true or false.
 :No, it's saying that, whatever the first rule of the club is at any given moment, that's the first rule of the club. Which cannot be false. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.38|108.162.216.38]] 16:39, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
 Granted; the statements hold enough implied information that we will agree that they are true in a trivial sense, and they are much more fun than 'either there are 1.000.000 people in this group or there aren't 1.000.000 people in this group' and 'either this is the first rule of the tautology club or it isn't' [[Special:Contributions/193.88.197.67|193.88.197.67]] 22:15, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
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 '''[[Hairbun]] vs. [[Science Girl]]''': should "Hairbun" in this comic be changed to "Science Girl"?  I know Science Girl is usually younger, and is usually associated with an interest in science, but IMHO, her appearance here is more characteristic of Science Girl (i.e. the curly ponytail hanging from the hairbun).  She may have been called "Hairbun" here because this comic was fairly early, before the "Science Girl" character became a regular; for example, even as late as [[1520: Degree-Off]], she was originally called "Hairbun", but was later changed to "Science Girl".  [https://store.xkcd.com/products/opinions-bumper-sticker Opinions]?  (Also, same for [[1511: Spice Girl]]?)  – [[User:Yfmcpxpj|Yfmcpxpj]] ([[User talk:Yfmcpxpj|talk]]) 00:22, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
 :For what it's worth, I think that's Science Girl. [[User:Nitpicking|Nitpicking]] ([[User talk:Nitpicking|talk]]) 13:00, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

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	:No, it's saying that, whatever the first rule of the club is at any given moment, that's the first rule of the club. Which cannot be false. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.38\|108.162.216.38]] 16:39, 11 February 2014 (UTC)		:No, it's saying that, whatever the first rule of the club is at any given moment, that's the first rule of the club. Which cannot be false. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.38\|108.162.216.38]] 16:39, 11 February 2014 (UTC)

		+	A tautology according to Merriam Webster is 1: needless repetition of an idea, statement, or word or 2: a statement that is true by virtue of its logical form alone. Strictly speaking all of these are tautologies.

	Granted; the statements hold enough implied information that we will agree that they are true in a trivial sense, and they are much more fun than 'either there are 1.000.000 people in this group or there aren't 1.000.000 people in this group' and 'either this is the first rule of the tautology club or it isn't' [[Special:Contributions/193.88.197.67\|193.88.197.67]] 22:15, 2 September 2013 (UTC)		Granted; the statements hold enough implied information that we will agree that they are true in a trivial sense, and they are much more fun than 'either there are 1.000.000 people in this group or there aren't 1.000.000 people in this group' and 'either this is the first rule of the tautology club or it isn't' [[Special:Contributions/193.88.197.67\|193.88.197.67]] 22:15, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

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 :: How is that not a tautology? For any proposition A, if the proposition is true, then A; if not, then ~A. Logic doesn't allow for a proposition to be both true AND false, nor does it allow for a proposition to be neither true NOR false, so the only remaining possibilities are A and ~A; ergo, A v ~A. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.38|108.162.216.38]] 16:44, 11 February 2014 (UTC)
 ::Not in all forms of logic and mathematics.  Intuitionism, in particular (check Wikipedia) treats "true" as equivalent to "provable" and "false" as equivalent to "disprovable," since math is not an abstract Platonic ideal, but a human construction. Even under conventional math, "The current King of France is bald" is neither true nor is it false, because there is no current King of France.  x \elem S is neither true nor false if x is not well-defined. 02:13, 17 March 2022 (UTC)
 :Unnecessary nitpick aside, then, there are more serious things. I presume the sentence, "It would also be true if there were somehow 1.000.000 members of the group without 1.000.000 people joining it," should be, "It would also '''not''' be true if there were somehow 1.000.000 members of the group without 1.000.000 people joining it." (Otherwise, the "also" is used incorrectly, and the sentence is useless.) Unfortunately, this would make it wrong; a statement of the form "if A then B" is not false if B is true and A isn't. (This is the difficulty of making formal logic: the traditional conditional leads to bizarre, vacuous truths.) Also, more seriously, you say that "if A then A" is a longer way of saying "A", or, more formally, that "A → A" is logically equivalent to "A." Unfortunately, this is not the case. The statement "if A then A" is always true, and hence a tautology. You also assert that "A = A" (or "A ↔ A") is logically equivalent to "A", where "A" is "The first rule of tautology club." This is even more obviously false. Even if "The first rule of tautology club" yields falsehood, it is still equivalent to itself.

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	'''[[Hairbun]] vs. [[Science Girl]]''': should "Hairbun" in this comic be changed to "Science Girl"? I know Science Girl is usually younger, and is usually associated with an interest in science, but IMHO, her appearance here is more characteristic of Science Girl (i.e. the curly ponytail hanging from the hairbun). She may have been called "Hairbun" here because this comic was fairly early, before the "Science Girl" character became a regular; for example, even as late as [[1520: Degree-Off]], she was originally called "Hairbun", but was later changed to "Science Girl". [https://store.xkcd.com/products/opinions-bumper-sticker Opinions]? (Also, same for [[1511: Spice Girl]]?) – [[User:Yfmcpxpj\|Yfmcpxpj]] ([[User talk:Yfmcpxpj\|talk]]) 00:22, 21 September 2020 (UTC)		'''[[Hairbun]] vs. [[Science Girl]]''': should "Hairbun" in this comic be changed to "Science Girl"? I know Science Girl is usually younger, and is usually associated with an interest in science, but IMHO, her appearance here is more characteristic of Science Girl (i.e. the curly ponytail hanging from the hairbun). She may have been called "Hairbun" here because this comic was fairly early, before the "Science Girl" character became a regular; for example, even as late as [[1520: Degree-Off]], she was originally called "Hairbun", but was later changed to "Science Girl". [https://store.xkcd.com/products/opinions-bumper-sticker Opinions]? (Also, same for [[1511: Spice Girl]]?) – [[User:Yfmcpxpj\|Yfmcpxpj]] ([[User talk:Yfmcpxpj\|talk]]) 00:22, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
		+	:For what it's worth, I think that's Science Girl. [[User:Nitpicking\|Nitpicking]] ([[User talk:Nitpicking\|talk]]) 13:00, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

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	The [http://www.xkcd.com/703/info.0.json official transcript] actually identifies him as "a shorter male with glasses that bears a striking resemblance to Jason Fox". I'd say the chances of it being him are a little more than "could be". [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.38\|173.245.54.38]] 07:02, 15 February 2016 (UTC)		The [http://www.xkcd.com/703/info.0.json official transcript] actually identifies him as "a shorter male with glasses that bears a striking resemblance to Jason Fox". I'd say the chances of it being him are a little more than "could be". [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.38\|173.245.54.38]] 07:02, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
		+
		+	'''[[Hairbun]] vs. [[Science Girl]]''': should "Hairbun" in this comic be changed to "Science Girl"? I know Science Girl is usually younger, and is usually associated with an interest in science, but IMHO, her appearance here is more characteristic of Science Girl (i.e. the curly ponytail hanging from the hairbun). She may have been called "Hairbun" here because this comic was fairly early, before the "Science Girl" character became a regular; for example, even as late as [[1520: Degree-Off]], she was originally called "Hairbun", but was later changed to "Science Girl". [https://store.xkcd.com/products/opinions-bumper-sticker Opinions]? (Also, same for [[1511: Spice Girl]]?) – [[User:Yfmcpxpj\|Yfmcpxpj]] ([[User talk:Yfmcpxpj\|talk]]) 00:22, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

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	I see that nobody's pointed out that the third figure from the left in the third panel appears to be Jason Fox (see [[824: Guest Week: Bill Amend (FoxTrot)]])- known to be one of those nerdy types who would join a tautology club. He is (to my knowledge) perpetually in the fifth grade, though, which does make me a little suspicious. --[[Special:Contributions/173.245.56.24\|173.245.56.24]] 00:03, 2 January 2014 (UTC)		I see that nobody's pointed out that the third figure from the left in the third panel appears to be Jason Fox (see [[824: Guest Week: Bill Amend (FoxTrot)]])- known to be one of those nerdy types who would join a tautology club. He is (to my knowledge) perpetually in the fifth grade, though, which does make me a little suspicious. --[[Special:Contributions/173.245.56.24\|173.245.56.24]] 00:03, 2 January 2014 (UTC)
		+
		+	The [http://www.xkcd.com/703/info.0.json official transcript] actually identifies him as "a shorter male with glasses that bears a striking resemblance to Jason Fox". I'd say the chances of it being him are a little more than "could be". [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.38\|173.245.54.38]] 07:02, 15 February 2016 (UTC)