3062: Off By One

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Off By One

Title text: It does come at the small cost of a LOT more off-by-40-or-50 errors.

Explanation

This explanation is incomplete: Created by 40-50 BOTS - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon. If you can fix this issue, edit the page!

In programming, off-by-one errors are very easy to create. An off-by-one error is an error where the value of a variable differs from the expected value by 1, or else is accurate but similarly misunderstood by some process that then uses it. This can arise from a number of sources, including mistakenly using a ≤ (less than or equals) comparison where a < (less than) comparison was needed to terminate a loop, or vice versa (≥ instead of >); confusion between zero- and one-based indexing of arrays in code, either by convention or by definition in the code; 'fencepost' errors, such as needing the number of values that appear in a range, as demonstrated by the values 4 to 6 (inclusive) not being 6 - 4 = 2 but 3.

Cueball has attempted to combat off-by-one errors in his new programming language by introducing off-by-40-to-50 errors, which will indeed ensure that a simple reference to a value is rarely off by one. It does not, however, prevent a value undergoing two or more larger errors from being off by one or, more rarely, being correct again. That aside, the intentionally larger inaccuracy is arguably even worse;^{[citation needed]} when trying to loop over an array, for example, it can miss many elements (and possibly revisit others more than once, and/or out of order), not just possibly omit or over-extend one of the endpoints.

The title text states the obvious; by changing every number by 40 to 50, any number will be 40 to 50 off. Although even this could be confounded further by existing unforced off-by-one errors (or itself being left ill-defined or misunderstood, depending on whether "between" here is being understod as inclusive or exclusive) leading to potential off-by-39-to-51 errors.

Transcript

This transcript is incomplete: Do NOT delete this tag too soon. If you can fix this issue, edit the page!

[Cueball faces Ponytail and Hairy. Cueball points towards a computer behind him]

Cueball: Any time an integer is stored or read, its value is adjusted upward or downward by a random amount between 40 and 50.

[Caption below the panel]

My new language almost completely eliminates off-by-one errors.

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Discussion

But what about floats? GreyFox (talk) 20:01, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

Is this dithering? Hcs (talk) 21:19, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

Could be. --PRR (talk) 22:19, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

This language has a huge off by one error: the docs don't explicitly say if the random range is inclusive. EDIT: the comic description above now includes this, thx --Snaxmcgee (talk) 22:22, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

But if it's adjusted both on store and on read, then there is a chance (of about 1 in 22) that the value after read will be exactly the same as the value before store. This does not eliminate pre-existing off-by-one errors, and in fact, introduces new ones if the adjustment on read is off by one from the adjustment on store, when there was no off-by-one error in the original code. And what's worse - with a single store-read cycle, the value can never be off by 40 to 50. It can be off by up to 10, or by between 80 to 100, in either direction. --NeatNit (talk) 22:42, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

I was just adjusting the explanation to imply this sort of thing (without having read your comment, just yet). Given the assumption that n=n±(40+rand(11)) at every stage (I'm assuming 'inclusive', Snaxmcgee!), two steps of 'intentional adjustment' might result in: -100 (x1), -99 (x2), -98 (x3), -97 (x4), -96 (x5), -95 (x6), -94 (x7), -93 (x8), -92 (x9), -91 (x10), -90 (x11), -89..-80 (x10..x1), -10 (x2), -9 (x4), -8 (x6), -7 (x8), -6 (x10), -5 (x12), -4 (x14), -3 (x16), -2 (x18), -1 (x20), ±0 (x22), +1..+10 (x20..x2), +80..+90..+100 (x1..x11..x1).

This gives a chance of being entirely correct as 22/484 (4.5454...%) and each off-by-one as very slightly less (though ±1, in total is almost twice as likely!).

Adding further steps (skipping odd step-cummulations, at least at first, until you get to nine of them and everything entirely stops being discontinuous) just spreads out an increased number of highs right next to zero deflection... 172.70.86.129 23:38, 12 March 2025 (UTC)

Obligatory quote:

There are two hard things in computer science: cache invalidation, naming things, and off-by-one errors.

See here for a full story of this quote: https://twitter.com/codinghorror/status/506010907021828096

--162.158.129.64 08:28, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

And 3 hard things in distributed computing: 3. Delivering messages exactly one time, 2. Making sure things happen in the correct order, and 3. Delivering messages exactly one time Jamcdonald (talk)

Presumably 1 is not losing data? --NeatNit (talk) 10:19, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

We may never know, Message 1 was never delivered Jamcdonald (talk)

In the comic, Cueball clearly says the adjustment amounts is ‘’between’’ 40 and 50, yet this explanation says the adjustment is from 40 to 50, ironically making an off-by-1 error on both ends of the range. Neither integers 40 nor 50 are “between 40 and 50”. 172.71.154.39 10:43, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

English language is imprecise with its use of "between", but it's usually taken as inclusive. Most people, when asked, "Pick a number between 1 and 10," will assume that 1 and 10 are both valid choices. Even in computing, you have things like Excel's RANDBETWEEN function to generate random integers between two bounds, which is inclusive. 104.23.187.72 (talk) 13:28, 13 March 2025 (please sign your comments with ~~~~)

Interestingly, in German such ranges are defined as including the borders, in Dutch they're defined as excluding the borders. (hence the Dutch t/m ("tot en met" - "up to, and including") 104.23.170.81 15:28, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

Yes, see between#Usage notes as one overview. Between as in "within the bounds defined by" is different from "amongst those things of which these items are the defining outer examples". Especially, but not exclusively, when that's just two distinct items which have no valid intermediate states betwixt the two to choose from ("you have to choose between me and my sister" isn't usually satisfactoraily answerable by choosing a different sibling, or perhaps parent, of the two). 172.69.195.54 15:24, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

It's easy to make an off-by-one error without using a computer at all. Ask a friend how many fenceposts are needed for a 100-foot fence if the rails are ten feet long. 172.71.30.199 12:58, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

And how wide are the posts..? ;) 141.101.98.6 15:27, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

If I ever answer this question 100, it's obviously because in my mind each post (or more accurately, the distance between the grooves cut into the post) is a foot wide, which is slightly larger than usual but not totally unreasonable size, and not because I fell for the trick.--Snaxmcgee (talk) 16:47, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

I don't understand - what's all this got to do with water balloons? 172.70.86.129 15:37, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

(ISWYDT...) 171.68.193.204 16:47, 14 February 2026 (UTC)

What did they do. Waterballoons were the previous comic? What did they do? 172.70.230.159 22:41, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

They were off by one [day] 172.68.55.113 16:35, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

Let's make programming languages do this! There should be an implementations section! :D :D 172.70.230.159 22:41, 13 March 2025 (UTC)

Nearly added the following information to the Explanation, but it's probably too specific an example:

The language Perl can be asked (with an array @array) for either the number of elements (with something like int(@array)) or the index of the final element (typically by $#array) of lists that usually start at the index of zero. The method of looping through the array should then be carefully matched to the limit given (shift/pop it as many times as there are elements, as one of the various "do-while" or "while-do" types of loop available, or else run from index zero to the topmost index value that normallybought to be 'elements minus one', with one of the more "for(;;)"-style counting-loops).

And, of course, there are subtle differences between Perl versions, not nust limited to whetger it's $array[$index] or @array[$index], and if $[ or 'arybase' can be used to mix things up a bit. (Though I might just map {...} @array it, or do something potentially awful but valid like {@array||last;print$".splice@array,rand@array,1;redo} if it seemed like I should.) 172.70.163.167 00:33, 14 March 2025 (UTC)
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