Editing Talk:2321: Low-Background Metal

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Spoiler Alert for Avengers Endgame next comment [[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.60|162.158.75.60]] 20:36, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
I can't help but notice that the basic premise of this comic is very much like the reason for going back to 1970 in ''Avengers: Endgame'', when they needed more Pym particles for time travel. I wonder if Randall re-watched it again recently? — [[User:KarMann|KarMann]] ([[User talk:KarMann|talk]]) 17:10, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
: Whoa! Spoiler alert! Disney Plus won't have Infinity War until next week. I'm not watching them out of order! [[User:Mathmannix|Mathmannix]] ([[User talk:Mathmannix|talk]]) 12:16, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Oh, that's new to me, that they use roman ships to get to higher quantities of lead. For Steel they use German ships. after world war I, the german high seas fleet was captured and put under arrest in scottish waters. To not allow the enemy to utilize the ships, they all sank themselfes. {{w|Scuttling_of_the_German_fleet_at_Scapa_Flow|wikisource}} --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 05:46, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

Is there any evidence of Roman ships using lead for ballast?  I know it was used as a structural metal and utility metal (sheathing, seam sealing, anchors, tools).  It was also carried as cargo.  But it seems likely that Roman lead was too expensive to be used as ballast, particularly compared to, say, rocks or concrete.  (Note that loading cargo low in the hull is not ballast, cargo is there because you want to move it, ballast is there only to keep the boat upright.)[[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.187|173.245.54.187]] 18:08, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
:The Romans used lead as a sweetener, I think they had plenty. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.106.178|162.158.106.178]] 08:06, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
::The references I found to modern use of Roman lead referred to ingots from Roman cargo. [https://phys.org/news/2013-11-controversy-roman-ingots-dark-neutrinos.html Controversy over the use of Roman ingots to investigate dark matter and neutrinos][https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1111/j.1095-9270.2007.00145.x Lead  Use  on  Roman  Ships  and  its  Environmental  Effects]  [[Special:Contributions/162.158.106.106|162.158.106.106]] 21:04, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

== Drawing ==

There's one leg of the time-machine missing from the 3rd panel. (or is it the side of a base?) --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.155.126|162.158.155.126]] 19:57, 17 June 2020 (UTC)


== Mined lead ==

Pb-210 (half-life 20.4 years) is a decay product of radon, and thus accumulates everywhere that is exposed to the atmosphere or where radon seeps from the ground. I suspect it could be a contaminant in lead from some lead mines, but wasn't able to find any references [[User:ShadwellNH|ShadwellNH]] ([[User talk:ShadwellNH|talk]]) 20:00, 17 June 2020 (UTC) Paul
:Pb-210 is mentioned in [https://phys.org/news/2013-11-controversy-roman-ingots-dark-neutrinos.html Controversy over the use of Roman ingots to investigate dark matter and neutrinos]. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.106.106|162.158.106.106]] 21:04, 20 June 2020 (UTC)

== One use only? ==

The way I understand it, the time machine is one-use unless you find other Low-Background Metal. If you find it, you can make more trips. It would appear that the trip is successful.
--[[Special:Contributions/188.114.103.129|188.114.103.129]] 01:31, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

So you'd say a car is also one-use, unless you find a gas station? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.158.167|162.158.158.167]] 08:51, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

::::(out of chrono... I am 162.158.158.167): No, I'd say that this is not a one-use time machine, so it's wrong to compare it to one-use time machines. Luckily, someone else changed the text already. --[[Special:Contributions/188.114.102.22|188.114.102.22]] 13:39, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

:::::"I am 162.158.158.167" no you're not.

: No, but if the parts it was made of had to be replaced after every trip, I definitely would. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.70.117|172.69.70.117]] 16:59, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

:: Sure, but the ability to rebuild the car with completely new material doesn't turn it into a multi-use car.  [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.130|141.101.98.130]] 04:11, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

== Real life use of this lead? ==

Does anyone know whether there is any truth whatsoever to scientists using lead from sunken ships to shield delicate equipment? Obviously not time machines, but there are some pieces of equipment that might be sensitive to radiation.

Also, would lead that was in the ocean actually be safer from nuclear fallout than lead that was underground and mined after the nuclear testing ended? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.172|108.162.216.172]] 03:31, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
: Yes. At least it is done with steel. [https://hackaday.com/2017/03/27/low-background-steel-so-hot-right-now/][https://www.good.is/articles/the-search-for-low-background-steel][https://www.stainless-steel-world.net/mobile/webarticles/joanne-mcintyre/disappearing-warships-scavengers-raid-war-graves-for-low-background-steel.html] [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.129|172.69.33.129]] 04:50, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

:Yes the water is a better insulator than air. Also the fallout would be partially absorbed by plants/animals before reaching the ocean bottom. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.123.155|162.158.123.155]] 16:51, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

: Low Background Lead is also used, mentioned in the Good article. The equipment that need this stuff is mostly radiation sensors, very precise ones that can detect even smallest amounts of radiation. And for the last Question, you can't find pure natural lead, its mostly contaminated with radioactive elements (most lead in the universe results from decay chains). And common lead is made through recycling. Ancient lead from roman ships had enough time for the radioactive elements to decay into stable lead. --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.105.114|141.101.105.114]] 06:12, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

== May be complicated ==

The 1968 Story [https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/109243/modern-military-jet-goes-back-to-world-war-i Hawk among Sparrows] discusses the problems modern war hardware may have when used against old tech. -- [[Special:Contributions/141.101.76.82|141.101.76.82]] 07:39, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
: This was also part of the premise of the 1980 movie "Final Countdown", when the aircraft carrier Nimitz shows up in the Pacific Ocean on December 6, 1941.  [[User:Nutster|Nutster]] ([[User talk:Nutster|talk]]) 13:38, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
: {{w|Biggles_(film)|Biggles: The Movie}} had a WW1 flying ace ''take'' a 1980s helicopter (ostensibly unarmed, except fortuitously/inevitably against the Big Bad Weapon) back to his era, thanks to a Time-Twin plotline. Thus, IIRC it only did well to defend against era-local aicraft by the mythical skill of the eponymous pilot, and was handily lost once the temporal-trickery job was finally accomplished. If you enjoy that era of kitcsh then I'd suggest you not pass up a viewing, even if not actually seek it out. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.130|141.101.98.130]] 17:11, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
* I am also mildly disappointed that the helicopter is not Airwolf. [[User:Nutster|Nutster]] ([[User talk:Nutster|talk]]) 03:11, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

== Safer alternative? ==

They could just send a cache of modern lead back in time and wait till it cools down. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.76.82|141.101.76.82]] 06:30, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
Naah, that would totally violate causality.  Not to mention that you'd now have the exact same atoms existing in two spatial places at the same time.  That could quite easily lead to the Earth being engulfed in a giant wormhole. [[User:Cellocgw|Cellocgw]] ([[User talk:Cellocgw|talk]]) 10:05, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

== Add Topic ==

Can we Add Topic with impunity now?
WOOOPEEEE![[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.216|108.162.216.216]] 10:45, 19 June 2020 (UTC)[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.216|108.162.216.216]] 10:48, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

== Links tutorial ==
In case the IP editor who came by recently (to try to resolve the issue with the link <code><nowiki>[[wikia:w:c:transcripts:Back to the Future|this transcript]]</nowiki></code>, which currently fails due to excessive redirects), the following is a quick(ish) guide to the basic types of link-markup, here, that some might find interesting:
* For a plain URL, you could just leave it. You wanted to replace the unmanagable wikia link with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back_to_the_Future_(film) and, without any additional markup, it appears as its own literal text that links. (Generally considered untidy, of course, but there are times when it would be Ok.)
* If you surround a URL with single []s, e.g. <code><nowiki>something like [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back_to_the_Future_(film)] <-this</nowiki></code> then it looks something like [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back_to_the_Future_(film)] <-this, which is usable but often still a bit dialogue breaking.
** The replacement text version puts a space between URL and the text. <code><nowiki>something like [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back_to_the_Future_(film) this]</nowiki></code> will appear something like [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back_to_the_Future_(film) this], and is the best way to represent most external URLs.
* For something internal/cross-wiki you can use double[[]]s <code><nowiki>something like [[2320: Millennium Problems]] <-a link to the prior explanation</nowiki></code> which is thus something like [[2320: Millennium Problems]] <-a link to the prior explanation.
** If I'd have linked to [[2321: Low-Background Metal]] then, when seen from that page, e.g. via the Page Discussion section embedded within it, then it'll 'intelligently' not link, just highlight... can be very confusing. But [[2321]] and [[Low-Background Metal]] (because they are separate pages that ''redirect'' back again) will work, if that's what you want.
** It is good practice to use the "Number: Title" page and text, when it is a clear link to another comic page (or similar) but if you want to use alternate text, use the pipe, e.g. <code><nowiki>something like [[2320: Millennium Problems|a link to the prior page]]</nowiki></code> produces something like [[2320: Millennium Problems|a link to the prior page]], thus.
** I've been making sure the URL 'replacement' characters, above, are unreplaced. e.g. spaces instead of the underline. But you can retain the underlines (or other ASCII replacement codes, if any). It might look funny to see [[2320:_Millennium_Problems]], but it will work. And if it's overriden by replacement text then it matters much less!
** Technically, the <code><nowiki>[[wikia:w:c:...]]</nowiki></code> notation should work, but in this case it has broken (possibly well after originally being written).
* However, for wikipedia links (and some other common external places) you have another option. The {{template|w}} template can be written as <code><nowiki>something like {{w|Back_to_the_Future_(film)}} or {{w|Back to the_Future (film)}}</nowiki></code>, to appear as something like {{w|Back_to_the_Future_(film)}} or {{w|Back to the Future (film)}} (note the preferable latter version, insofar as not displaying any URL-friendly character replacement).
** And add "<pipe><replacement text>", of course, so that <code><nowiki>something like {{w|Back_to_the_Future_(film)|first link}} or {{w|Back to the Future (film)|second link}}</nowiki></code> will show up as something like {{w|Back_to_the_Future_(film)|first link}} or {{w|Back to the Future (film)|second link}}, looking nicer (generally) in both editor and rendered page.
** For 'media' under the wiki you can use a number of formats <code><nowiki>[[File:Back to the Future.jpg|this version]] and {{w|File:Back to the Future.jpg|this version}}</nowiki></code> will give {{w|File:Back to the Future.jpg|this version}}. Unfortunately (or not, if that's what you intend,) in this case <code><nowiki>[[File:Back to the Future.jpg]]</nowiki></code> finds the local ''comic'' image with this name and embeds it as an image. Which is why I would suggest using {{template|w}}, when appropriate, rather than relying upon a seemless interwiki behaviour for anything other than articles. But you start to get into much more advanced mediawiki notation at this point.
Hope this helps someone. Even if not the editor who passed by earlier and had so much trouble! [[Special:Contributions/172.69.194.194|172.69.194.194]] 14:55, 1 November 2023 (UTC)