Difference between revisions of "Talk:2637: Roman Numerals"

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::One thing you learn, when contributing to a wiki, is that you better be prepared to [https://www.masterclass.com/articles/what-does-it-mean-to-kill-your-darlings Kill Your Darlings], or have them killed by others. The many's the time I've written something I'm (eventually) quite pleased about, but it gets wiped out either by someone disagreeing with my particular form of self-satisfaction, or just completely rearranging things and either crashing through the carefully crafted copy or ruthlessly removing my radient repartee. But such is life...
 
::One thing you learn, when contributing to a wiki, is that you better be prepared to [https://www.masterclass.com/articles/what-does-it-mean-to-kill-your-darlings Kill Your Darlings], or have them killed by others. The many's the time I've written something I'm (eventually) quite pleased about, but it gets wiped out either by someone disagreeing with my particular form of self-satisfaction, or just completely rearranging things and either crashing through the carefully crafted copy or ruthlessly removing my radient repartee. But such is life...
 
:And often I feel that whoever got in there with the first footprint of explanation has ''not'' done it the way I would (surprisingly often I had the same idea, but obviously there are so many ways to do it... but here I may disagree entirely rather than "I'll happily work with it, then, however different it is...") and I might be ''very'' tempted to replace it wholesale. I don'5 think I have ever done so, but I might tweak it a ''lot'', in bits and pieces. It may still upset an OP who finds it bears little relationship to what they submitted, but I try never to do anything beyond the general hum of the community. Coward that I am. But it can happen to anyone. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.44|172.70.86.44]] 17:01, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
 
:And often I feel that whoever got in there with the first footprint of explanation has ''not'' done it the way I would (surprisingly often I had the same idea, but obviously there are so many ways to do it... but here I may disagree entirely rather than "I'll happily work with it, then, however different it is...") and I might be ''very'' tempted to replace it wholesale. I don'5 think I have ever done so, but I might tweak it a ''lot'', in bits and pieces. It may still upset an OP who finds it bears little relationship to what they submitted, but I try never to do anything beyond the general hum of the community. Coward that I am. But it can happen to anyone. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.44|172.70.86.44]] 17:01, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
 +
:I'm not sure about 'overly long', but as it stands it takes an awfully long time to come to the point. I'd be inclined to lift the basic explanation (roughly equating to the paragraph starting 'The joke is...') to the top, and only after that dive into the niceties of how each system works and what specifically is going on in the examples in the comic. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.58|172.70.91.58]] 09:11, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
  
 
I, in a rather faint and not really concerned way, object to the use of the phrase 'archaic' with regard to Roman Numerals. That would imply that they aren't in use at all, whereas when I look around me I can see a number of examples of current usage of Roman Numerals, e.g. Clock Faces, Chapter Numbering (some books) and the most important, the 'Manufacture Date' of a televisual programme from the BBC shown at the bottom of the end-credits. I believe a better phrase may be 'venerable' or 'historical' or 'unmodern'.
 
I, in a rather faint and not really concerned way, object to the use of the phrase 'archaic' with regard to Roman Numerals. That would imply that they aren't in use at all, whereas when I look around me I can see a number of examples of current usage of Roman Numerals, e.g. Clock Faces, Chapter Numbering (some books) and the most important, the 'Manufacture Date' of a televisual programme from the BBC shown at the bottom of the end-credits. I believe a better phrase may be 'venerable' or 'historical' or 'unmodern'.

Revision as of 09:11, 27 June 2022


Immediately came to this site as soon as the comic popped up 172.70.114.43 22:43, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

For anyone wondering about the alt text: "CheCk out thIs InnoVatIVe strIng enCoDIng IVe been DeVeLopIng! It's VIrtuaCy perfeCt! ...hang on, what's a "virtuacy"?" Roman numerals are in uppercase. : 162.158.90.209 23:00, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

I didn't see this comment, but I decoded it above. Feel free to update with your text, which includes the casing.
It should be virtually - LL is 50 50, C is 100. 172.70.110.121 00:37, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
By the way, this encoding is not that innovative: back when Roman numbers still meant something to people they were oftentimes hidden inside inscriptions on churches and monuments. If you ever stand in front of a church and wonder why certain letters in a sentence of an inscription are capitalized seemingly at random, this may be the reason. --172.70.250.231 06:12, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
The (almost) exact encoding style of the alt text also was used before, e.g. in works of fiction - the first I can think of is Howard Taylor's Schlock Mercenary (used for AI names) 172.70.242.45 13:41, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

Relevant OEIS entry: https://oeis.org/A093788 162.158.129.117 23:43, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

Well, I immediately got the comic, when I saw it, but (though I admire the effort put in) the explanation that seems to have been given is... overly long, IMO. I have no wish to invalidate all the thought put into it, but I really feel it says too much. Even by my standards (I'm often a waffler, as I 'improve' the accuracy and all-inclusiveness of such text). But don't want to rain on the existing author(s) parade, myself, so just sayin'... 162.158.159.15 02:01, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

It's not overly long if someone spent the time writing it. -- Hkmaly (talk) 02:10, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
I wondered too when first reading but like it geeky like that. --172.68.50.15 05:37, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
I've repeatedly had my edits, longer and shorter, reverted completely away. I've occasionally started the same to manage the experience. Your opinion is a breathe of fresh air but I wouldn't be worried about increases in quality that shorten the text. One can even leave concepts in by replacing them with links. 172.70.110.241 12:01, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
One thing you learn, when contributing to a wiki, is that you better be prepared to Kill Your Darlings, or have them killed by others. The many's the time I've written something I'm (eventually) quite pleased about, but it gets wiped out either by someone disagreeing with my particular form of self-satisfaction, or just completely rearranging things and either crashing through the carefully crafted copy or ruthlessly removing my radient repartee. But such is life...
And often I feel that whoever got in there with the first footprint of explanation has not done it the way I would (surprisingly often I had the same idea, but obviously there are so many ways to do it... but here I may disagree entirely rather than "I'll happily work with it, then, however different it is...") and I might be very tempted to replace it wholesale. I don'5 think I have ever done so, but I might tweak it a lot, in bits and pieces. It may still upset an OP who finds it bears little relationship to what they submitted, but I try never to do anything beyond the general hum of the community. Coward that I am. But it can happen to anyone. 172.70.86.44 17:01, 26 June 2022 (UTC)
I'm not sure about 'overly long', but as it stands it takes an awfully long time to come to the point. I'd be inclined to lift the basic explanation (roughly equating to the paragraph starting 'The joke is...') to the top, and only after that dive into the niceties of how each system works and what specifically is going on in the examples in the comic. 172.70.91.58 09:11, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

I, in a rather faint and not really concerned way, object to the use of the phrase 'archaic' with regard to Roman Numerals. That would imply that they aren't in use at all, whereas when I look around me I can see a number of examples of current usage of Roman Numerals, e.g. Clock Faces, Chapter Numbering (some books) and the most important, the 'Manufacture Date' of a televisual programme from the BBC shown at the bottom of the end-credits. I believe a better phrase may be 'venerable' or 'historical' or 'unmodern'. 172.70.162.5 07:46, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

I was also thinking that. But maybe qualified as "archaic but still commonly seen" (or similar), were my thoughts. I was wondering if it was a local perspective, though. 'Historical' US usage is rather sparser, I imagine, than the accumulation of Old World monuments/etc, from deeper back into the times it was more usual, so making only the "stylstically old" things predominantly use them (certain clock faces, etc). Meanwhile, even our programmes broadcast on the BBC still regularly close with the date in letters (anything from this year is "MMXXII") on the final frame/line of the credits, while our other broadcasters go with contemporary numerals in the same context. (I wonder, was 1999 "MIMIC", rather than "MCMXCIX"..? I think it was...) 141.101.98.221 11:58, 25 June 2022 (UTC)
In mathematics, Roman numerals are archaic (obsolete, no longer in active use), common use is just for numbering (monarchs - themselves a somewhat archaic concept, generations of using the same name, events, sequels, volumes, paragraphs or appendices, etc.) or very occasionally for years (e.g. of construction) - "archaic" is correct even if you mean from the/an archaic period which may be the period when a civilization built the foundation for a later "classical" period ("Golden Age") (some exemptions may apply) or specifically the time of the Greek archaic era leading up to Classical (Hellenic) Greece, usually defined some time between about 800 and 480 BCE (they did (probably) originate from the Roman archaic period which overlaps with the Greek one) 172.70.242.45 13:41, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

In case anyone is interested, I created a small encoder/decoder program (Python+PyQt): https://gist.github.com/MaurizioB/6bedeca961b5152006d030f56f817a2f Musicamanate (talk) 17:05, 25 June 2022 (UTC)

It's rather ironic that the hindu/arabic numerals contain zero, while roman numerals don't. By mixing a zero into the roman numerals things get confusing.