Difference between revisions of "Talk:2704: Faucet"

Explain xkcd: It's 'cause you're dumb.
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(Adding comment on US vs Europe and adding signatures)
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Is that hairy? looks like him? [[User:Mushrooms|Mushrooms]] ([[User talk:Mushrooms|talk]]) 10:07, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
 
Is that hairy? looks like him? [[User:Mushrooms|Mushrooms]] ([[User talk:Mushrooms|talk]]) 10:07, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
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:I think it could be, but he is looking different with the hair and because of the scruffy looks his hair standing up could be because he has torn in it. I think it is better not to include it as a Hairy comic. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:34, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
  
 
Is it too pedantic to point out the distinction between a helix (the shape of the control) and a spiral (mentioned by the character)?
 
Is it too pedantic to point out the distinction between a helix (the shape of the control) and a spiral (mentioned by the character)?
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:What is also interesting is that the 3D-perspective drawing by our in-frame inventor, upon the perspectivised drawing surface as depicted by Randall, makes it look like very much like an actual sticky-outy object within the drawn world. Like it's actually a moulded/similar relief model/mockup, surrounded by the more standard 'wall notes' used to suggest on-the-go calculations/annotations. An interesting artistic choice (or possibly an unintentional consequence) by Randall. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.61|172.70.86.61]] 11:13, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
 
:What is also interesting is that the 3D-perspective drawing by our in-frame inventor, upon the perspectivised drawing surface as depicted by Randall, makes it look like very much like an actual sticky-outy object within the drawn world. Like it's actually a moulded/similar relief model/mockup, surrounded by the more standard 'wall notes' used to suggest on-the-go calculations/annotations. An interesting artistic choice (or possibly an unintentional consequence) by Randall. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.61|172.70.86.61]] 11:13, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
  
I think it should be added that the issue is mainly for the US. In Europe, and in the other of the rest of the world - except US - the thermostatic head has replaced most other faucet in shower, and the hand washing is not so much of an issue. My shower in some US hotels were a nightmare, where I remember taking multiple minute to understand how it might work.
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I think it should be added that the issue is mainly for the US. In Europe, and in the other of the rest of the world - except US - the thermostatic head has replaced most other faucet in shower, and the hand washing is not so much of an issue. My shower in some US hotels were a nightmare, where I remember taking multiple minute to understand how it might work. {{unsigned ip|172.71.130.80}}
  
I think it should be added that the issue is mainly for Europe, especially Americans traveling in Europe.  In the USA, where proportioning valves are common and anti-scald protection is mandated by code, controls are both intuitive and safe.
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I think it should be added that the issue is mainly for Europe, especially Americans traveling in Europe.  In the USA, where proportioning valves are common and anti-scald protection is mandated by code, controls are both intuitive and safe. {{unsigned ip|172.70.210.49}}
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:So funny that these two comments in a row says the opposite. I'm from Denmark and where I sometimes dislike the designs of a faucet I have almost never found one for a tap that was a problem to understand. Sure for a shower there can be some issues, mainly because it can be too hot and problematic to stand under them when turning them on the first time. But it seems to me that this is not a serious problem in Europe. And from reading above it seems like this is in fact a US problem only. But the last comment says the opposite. by the way both sigantures unsigned, so did a check and found they where from two different IP and with time between. Was wondering if someone was trolling by writing the same comment twice with reversed meaning. But seems to not be the case. Have added signatures now. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:34, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Revision as of 13:34, 29 November 2022


Are faucet designs considered to be confusing? I'm never confused by normal ones like these -- Flekkie (talk) 02:12, 29 November 2022 (please sign your comments with ~~~~)

Yeah I came here wondering the same thing. Is the joke perhaps not so much that the controls are confusing in terms of intent, but just in terms of determining the bounds? Eg, with two identical faucet controls and identical water pressures, "full blast hot" still translates to something radically different, if one building has a water heater set to 120F and the other building has a water heater set to 160F. 172.69.170.189 (talk) 02:46, 29 November 2022 (please sign your comments with ~~~~)
(I find °F confusing, personally, but...) ...the easiest thing is to have two taps, one hot and one cold. Yes, they can combine into a single spout, but there are various conflicting plusses and minuses of that over having the two independent ones per outlet. Speaking (as I'm sure mixer-tap afficionados worldwide will appreciate) as a Brit. 172.70.85.24 03:03, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
Relevant Tom Scott video: Why Britain Uses Separate Hot and Cold Taps. TL;DR: British houses used to get their hot water from rat-filled cisterns so they wanted to keep the hot water separate from the cold water, and old habits die hard. 162.158.63.152 03:34, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
Silliness of dual-taps aside, that doesn't solve the issue of identical tap hardware yielding radically different results depending on what the hot water thermostat is set to. Maybe that's not the original joke (I'm still not sure what it was) but it's worth mentioning at least. 172.69.170.146 03:39, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
I don't think those are confusing, but in many cases the feedback is too slow (e.g. due to the water in the pipes coming from the hot water source having cooled since the tap was last used), or inconvenient (e.g. the pressure of the hot water not being enough to trigger on-demand gas heaters). While theoretically that design allows exploring the whole temperature/pressure space, in practice one needs some trial-and-error and delay to find the correct setting (as Randall points out in the title text) to make it work. --Waldir (talk) 10:54, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
It's really a joke we are too European to understand. Visit the US to see faucet control disasters in all their glory. 172.68.51.203 10:56, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
Yeah, here in Europe I've seen faucets with mechanical thermostats to regulate the temperature and therefore two dials for either flow or temperature. This was more than 20 years ago. --Sarsey (talk) 12:01, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

I sympathize with Randall here; even controls designed to independently control temperature and flow rarely meet both the "intuitive to use at a glance" and "function as described" requirements to make them non-confusing. Dextrous Fred (talk) 03:44, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be super simple to just have a slider that goes from hot to cold, and a second one that goes from slow to fast flow? Or one for hot, one for cold, with the higher the slider goes, the more the flow is increased? I don't see how much simpler you can get it. Hell, you could even use a dial for temperature (all dials turn clockwise to increase) with a digital readout. 172.70.131.44 05:25, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

I suppose the issue with that is that, unlike simple mixer taps that control the flow of hot and cold water independently, relying on the human to find the right mixture that creates the desired flow and temperature, what you're describing requires a more complex system that is able to do that process automatically, so it can't be a simple mechanical valve. It would require temperature and pressure sensors for both the hot and cold water streams, and it would have to dynamically adjust the physical valve settings depending on all six parameters (position of the flow handle/slider/knob, position of the temperature handle/slider/knob, temperature of the hot water, temperature of the cold water, pressure of the hot water, pressure of the cold water). I'm not even sure this is possible with a fully mechanical system — likely some electronics would need to be involved, which might complicate things. --Waldir (talk) 10:50, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

This is probably the very first xkcd comic where I have absolutely no idea where Randal is coming from. While different people have different preferences for different designs, I've never heard of anyone being confused by any faucet design. Maybe he's trolling us, by trying to get a rise out of people wondering what the hell he's talking about? Bischoff (talk) 08:20, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

This may be a reference to "Design of Everyday Things - Dan Norman" or books in that direction. Although he talked a lot more about creating doors wrong he also mentioned faucet designs as terrible. 198.41.242.29 09:17, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

I was initially drawn to the parallel/derivation from the "Build a better mousetrap..." concept, which vastly predates Don Norman. But it's such a widespread trope that I can't be sure it should be mentioned 'officially'. 172.70.86.61 11:13, 29 November 2022 (UTC)
I am actually puzzled by how many people don't relate to this, judging by the comments here. I guess I've been unlucky with the faucets I've encountered so far? Over the years I've had spontaneous conversations with multiple people abut how tap designs are either inconvenient (i.e. hard to find the right handle positions to produce the desired temperature and flow), or confusing to use, especially for hotel showers. In fact I'm adding this comment mostly so other people who share the same perception don't feel gaslighted or otherwise confused by so many people not recognizing this issue. --Waldir (talk) 10:50, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Is that hairy? looks like him? Mushrooms (talk) 10:07, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

I think it could be, but he is looking different with the hair and because of the scruffy looks his hair standing up could be because he has torn in it. I think it is better not to include it as a Hairy comic. --Kynde (talk) 13:34, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Is it too pedantic to point out the distinction between a helix (the shape of the control) and a spiral (mentioned by the character)?

Not really, but it could be a very shallow (by radial increase/decrease per turn) 3D spiral, I'm more concerned by the "tightening", wondering if it's a flexible spiral/helix that is manipulated dynamically, rather than merely a tap* with a funny-shaped handle/head to rotate through into the backplate.
* - 'faucet' just makes me wait for a "force it" pun. It's a very American word that I'm not personally aware of being used throught the rest of the anglosphere. Maybe Canada, but probably not Aus/NZ/etc if my uptake of their TV/film exports is correctly remembered... Somebody may want to correct me on this issue, or add English As A Second Language metrics to this.
What is also interesting is that the 3D-perspective drawing by our in-frame inventor, upon the perspectivised drawing surface as depicted by Randall, makes it look like very much like an actual sticky-outy object within the drawn world. Like it's actually a moulded/similar relief model/mockup, surrounded by the more standard 'wall notes' used to suggest on-the-go calculations/annotations. An interesting artistic choice (or possibly an unintentional consequence) by Randall. 172.70.86.61 11:13, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

I think it should be added that the issue is mainly for the US. In Europe, and in the other of the rest of the world - except US - the thermostatic head has replaced most other faucet in shower, and the hand washing is not so much of an issue. My shower in some US hotels were a nightmare, where I remember taking multiple minute to understand how it might work. 172.71.130.80 (talk) (please sign your comments with ~~~~)

I think it should be added that the issue is mainly for Europe, especially Americans traveling in Europe. In the USA, where proportioning valves are common and anti-scald protection is mandated by code, controls are both intuitive and safe. 172.70.210.49 (talk) (please sign your comments with ~~~~)

So funny that these two comments in a row says the opposite. I'm from Denmark and where I sometimes dislike the designs of a faucet I have almost never found one for a tap that was a problem to understand. Sure for a shower there can be some issues, mainly because it can be too hot and problematic to stand under them when turning them on the first time. But it seems to me that this is not a serious problem in Europe. And from reading above it seems like this is in fact a US problem only. But the last comment says the opposite. by the way both sigantures unsigned, so did a check and found they where from two different IP and with time between. Was wondering if someone was trolling by writing the same comment twice with reversed meaning. But seems to not be the case. Have added signatures now. --Kynde (talk) 13:34, 29 November 2022 (UTC)