Editing Talk:2835: Factorial Numbers
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: Of course it's "real math." There aren't that many applications, but so what? Math isn't about applications. Besides, there are some. Maybe not specifically for factorial base, but for some place systems. The only thing "dirty" about decimal is the arbitrariness of ten. Considering place systems in general is just considering special kinds of sums. Certainly, "serious" mathematicians are interested in proving numbers normal in specific bases, or in every base. [[User:EebstertheGreat|EebstertheGreat]] ([[User talk:EebstertheGreat|talk]]) 01:55, 30 September 2023 (UTC) | : Of course it's "real math." There aren't that many applications, but so what? Math isn't about applications. Besides, there are some. Maybe not specifically for factorial base, but for some place systems. The only thing "dirty" about decimal is the arbitrariness of ten. Considering place systems in general is just considering special kinds of sums. Certainly, "serious" mathematicians are interested in proving numbers normal in specific bases, or in every base. [[User:EebstertheGreat|EebstertheGreat]] ([[User talk:EebstertheGreat|talk]]) 01:55, 30 September 2023 (UTC) | ||
− | : A great deal of interesting maths can be found in and around | + | : A great deal of interesting maths can be found in and around the various arrangements of digits in numbers systems, surely. AzureArmageddon 07:54, 30 September 2023 (UTC) |
I thought this was a complete joke, until coming here. The "factorial number system" exists?! [[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.249|162.158.90.249]] 22:38, 29 September 2023 (UTC) | I thought this was a complete joke, until coming here. The "factorial number system" exists?! [[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.249|162.158.90.249]] 22:38, 29 September 2023 (UTC) | ||
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This needs simplifying a bit. Came here because I had no idea what was going on, and after a quick scroll through the prose, the main thing I learned was "it's 'cause you're dumb". May be true but I still don't get what Randall's factorial system is....[[User:Alcatraz ii|Alcatraz ii]] ([[User talk:Alcatraz ii|talk]]) 01:25, 30 September 2023 (UTC) | This needs simplifying a bit. Came here because I had no idea what was going on, and after a quick scroll through the prose, the main thing I learned was "it's 'cause you're dumb". May be true but I still don't get what Randall's factorial system is....[[User:Alcatraz ii|Alcatraz ii]] ([[User talk:Alcatraz ii|talk]]) 01:25, 30 September 2023 (UTC) | ||
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Factorial base also allows to finitely represent all rational numbers - no constant base is capable of that! [[Special:Contributions/172.68.238.76|172.68.238.76]] 01:55, 30 September 2023 (UTC) | Factorial base also allows to finitely represent all rational numbers - no constant base is capable of that! [[Special:Contributions/172.68.238.76|172.68.238.76]] 01:55, 30 September 2023 (UTC) | ||
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I feel like Michael when Oscar is trying to explain what a “surplus” is.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.186.241|162.158.186.241]] 04:12, 30 September 2023 (UTC) | I feel like Michael when Oscar is trying to explain what a “surplus” is.[[Special:Contributions/162.158.186.241|162.158.186.241]] 04:12, 30 September 2023 (UTC) | ||
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== The warning is complete nonsense, just remove it == | == The warning is complete nonsense, just remove it == | ||
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:::<nowiki>*</nowiki>sigh* As has been stated, you MUST be new here. The "incomplete" tag goes on new comics while their descriptions are still in flux. When the bot creates the empty description page, it does so with the Incomplete warning, labelled with its name. On the first edit, someone ALWAYS changes the name to some silly gag that's related to the comic, often pretending it's the name of the bot that created the page for us. In this case the comic shows Cueball being escorted out, so the joke is the bot is being escorted out. If you're not going to have a sense of humour, why are you here? Just leave the editing to others in the meantime. :) (Oh, and as the user above noted, make sure to end your comments with <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> (4 tildes), like it says at the top of the editing text box you type in). :) [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 05:13, 1 October 2023 (UTC) | :::<nowiki>*</nowiki>sigh* As has been stated, you MUST be new here. The "incomplete" tag goes on new comics while their descriptions are still in flux. When the bot creates the empty description page, it does so with the Incomplete warning, labelled with its name. On the first edit, someone ALWAYS changes the name to some silly gag that's related to the comic, often pretending it's the name of the bot that created the page for us. In this case the comic shows Cueball being escorted out, so the joke is the bot is being escorted out. If you're not going to have a sense of humour, why are you here? Just leave the editing to others in the meantime. :) (Oh, and as the user above noted, make sure to end your comments with <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> (4 tildes), like it says at the top of the editing text box you type in). :) [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 05:13, 1 October 2023 (UTC) | ||
:Okay, now the Incomplete warning needs to stay up forever. :) [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 05:13, 1 October 2023 (UTC) | :Okay, now the Incomplete warning needs to stay up forever. :) [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 05:13, 1 October 2023 (UTC) | ||
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:In case you weren’t aware, this wiki has a tradition of humor. This is one of its examples. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.58.134|172.68.58.134]] 12:56, 2 October 2023 (UTC) | :In case you weren’t aware, this wiki has a tradition of humor. This is one of its examples. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.58.134|172.68.58.134]] 12:56, 2 October 2023 (UTC) | ||
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All the stuff about economy / efficiency doesn't seem to really have any direct relation to the comic, so I'd suggest it doesn't really belong in the explanation, but should be confined to the comments, or at least to a trivia section. Not least because it dives off into a lot of technical stuff that ''itself'' requires explanation for a significant part of the readership. As it is, it's doing more to confuse than to explain.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.218|172.70.85.218]] 09:02, 2 October 2023 (UTC) | All the stuff about economy / efficiency doesn't seem to really have any direct relation to the comic, so I'd suggest it doesn't really belong in the explanation, but should be confined to the comments, or at least to a trivia section. Not least because it dives off into a lot of technical stuff that ''itself'' requires explanation for a significant part of the readership. As it is, it's doing more to confuse than to explain.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.218|172.70.85.218]] 09:02, 2 October 2023 (UTC) | ||
:I sort of agree, in that I had planned something similar about 'notation economy' as a Trivia-like addendum, before others got there before me. But there could at least be something to be said that by reserving higher-digits(/dissalowing them in lower values), Cueball/Randall is sacrificing conciseness for (one idea of) aestheticism. (And that's without going into 'how much storage it takes to store each digit', which I wasn't going into. So rather than the idealised radix being base-'e', I would have said the idealised base was whatever base-number exceeded the highest value, so it was just one (different) single squiggle for ''everything''. Obviously, there's necessary entropy in the choice of differentiatable squiggles/encoding, though, which is why I also appreciate the current Explanation's blurb.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.52|172.70.90.52]] 10:15, 2 October 2023 (UTC) | :I sort of agree, in that I had planned something similar about 'notation economy' as a Trivia-like addendum, before others got there before me. But there could at least be something to be said that by reserving higher-digits(/dissalowing them in lower values), Cueball/Randall is sacrificing conciseness for (one idea of) aestheticism. (And that's without going into 'how much storage it takes to store each digit', which I wasn't going into. So rather than the idealised radix being base-'e', I would have said the idealised base was whatever base-number exceeded the highest value, so it was just one (different) single squiggle for ''everything''. Obviously, there's necessary entropy in the choice of differentiatable squiggles/encoding, though, which is why I also appreciate the current Explanation's blurb.) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.52|172.70.90.52]] 10:15, 2 October 2023 (UTC) | ||
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== Factoradic Algorithms == | == Factoradic Algorithms == | ||
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perform this in one or two lines, where as a language like c++ will be longer. | perform this in one or two lines, where as a language like c++ will be longer. | ||
− | The simplest algorithm is to generate the digits from right to left one at time by dividing the number by | + | The simplest algorithm is to generate the digits from right to left one at time by dividing the number by the radix until the quotient reaches zero: |
#include <iostream> | #include <iostream> | ||
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int radix = 2; | int radix = 2; | ||
while (num != 0) { | while (num != 0) { | ||
− | digits.push_back( | + | digits.push_back(to_string(num % radix)[0]); |
num /= radix++; | num /= radix++; | ||
} | } | ||
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1000001 - 266251221 | 1000001 - 266251221 | ||
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I would love to have some kind of explanation as to why this number system exists/what it's used for in the real world. (Even if that explanation is just "there's no practical purpose, mathematicians just love doing this stuff".) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.134.87|172.70.134.87]] 14:55, 2 October 2023 (UTC) | I would love to have some kind of explanation as to why this number system exists/what it's used for in the real world. (Even if that explanation is just "there's no practical purpose, mathematicians just love doing this stuff".) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.134.87|172.70.134.87]] 14:55, 2 October 2023 (UTC) | ||
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