Editing Talk:2390: Linguists
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::Whereas "Fell Down a hole" implies that the lowest point of your body, when you STARTED falling, has actually experienced significant downward motion by the time you STOPPED falling. you can't fall 'down' a hole if your foot was resting on the hole's bottom when you started out. | ::Whereas "Fell Down a hole" implies that the lowest point of your body, when you STARTED falling, has actually experienced significant downward motion by the time you STOPPED falling. you can't fall 'down' a hole if your foot was resting on the hole's bottom when you started out. | ||
::[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.35|108.162.216.35]] 19:50, 26 November 2020 (UTC) | ::[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.35|108.162.216.35]] 19:50, 26 November 2020 (UTC) | ||
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Did anyone else notice that this comic seems to have significantly higher resolution than others? It’s especially noticeable on mobile browsers, but I haven’t tested it on PC. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.154|108.162.219.154]] 02:36, 26 November 2020 (UTC) | Did anyone else notice that this comic seems to have significantly higher resolution than others? It’s especially noticeable on mobile browsers, but I haven’t tested it on PC. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.154|108.162.219.154]] 02:36, 26 November 2020 (UTC) | ||
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I guess you could fall "in" a hole without falling "down" a hole if you like...tripped into a sideways hole, like a doorway... | I guess you could fall "in" a hole without falling "down" a hole if you like...tripped into a sideways hole, like a doorway... | ||
[[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.138|162.158.75.138]] 07:50, 26 November 2020 (UTC) | [[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.138|162.158.75.138]] 07:50, 26 November 2020 (UTC) | ||
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I'd say if you mean the act of falling into the hole, you can indicate that with either 'into' or 'down' (or even both) and you could argue when to use which, but if you mean the place where you have fallen, you would use 'in'. Informally, I have heard people use 'in' as short of 'into'. On the other hand, the place where you have fallen could be "down a hole" (I have been down that hole). It now depends whether the "down" is connected to "I fell" or to "the hole". In theory, you could say "I fell down a hole down the hole" to indicate you fell down a second hole while being inside the first one. | I'd say if you mean the act of falling into the hole, you can indicate that with either 'into' or 'down' (or even both) and you could argue when to use which, but if you mean the place where you have fallen, you would use 'in'. Informally, I have heard people use 'in' as short of 'into'. On the other hand, the place where you have fallen could be "down a hole" (I have been down that hole). It now depends whether the "down" is connected to "I fell" or to "the hole". In theory, you could say "I fell down a hole down the hole" to indicate you fell down a second hole while being inside the first one. | ||
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Someone needs to add a discussion of prescriptivist vs. descriptivist linguists -- the person in the comic is clearly a descriptivist, the pedants described in the caption would be prescriptivists. (Incidentally, [https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=49309 Language Log] posted about the comic and there's some discussion.) [[User:Arcorann|Arcorann]] ([[User talk:Arcorann|talk]]) 14:34, 26 November 2020 (UTC) | Someone needs to add a discussion of prescriptivist vs. descriptivist linguists -- the person in the comic is clearly a descriptivist, the pedants described in the caption would be prescriptivists. (Incidentally, [https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=49309 Language Log] posted about the comic and there's some discussion.) [[User:Arcorann|Arcorann]] ([[User talk:Arcorann|talk]]) 14:34, 26 November 2020 (UTC) | ||
− | Yes this is saying most linguists are descriptivists, they find out what people say/write, and ask what they mean - and so are most dictionaries [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.128|162.158.159.128]] 15:09, 26 November 2020 (UTC) | + | Yes this is saying most linguists are descriptivists, they find out what people say/write, and ask what they mean - Most linguists are descriptivists, and so are most dictionaries [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.128|162.158.159.128]] 15:09, 26 November 2020 (UTC) |
I predict many links to the original XKCD comic will appear in the comments of the next Tom Scott linguistics YouTube video.[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.193|173.245.52.193]] 06:12, 27 November 2020 (UTC) | I predict many links to the original XKCD comic will appear in the comments of the next Tom Scott linguistics YouTube video.[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.193|173.245.52.193]] 06:12, 27 November 2020 (UTC) | ||
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"What is it that Ponytail thinks is being said, and what should have been said to avoid misunderstanding?" <-- from the incomplete explanation box. | "What is it that Ponytail thinks is being said, and what should have been said to avoid misunderstanding?" <-- from the incomplete explanation box. | ||
I don't believe that Ponytail is misunderstanding anything. Ponytail (correctly) understands that the speaker-in-a-hole is in a hole and got there by means of falling. The joke is, rather than help the person out of the hole (as just about any normal human, linguist or not, would do), Ponytail sees an opportunity to do some field research, asking whether falling down a hole means the same thing to the unseen speaker as falling in a hole, or if there are subtle differences between the two. Most, if not all, native speakers of English would understand the meaning, but as you can see from the comments here, we do _have_ subtle differences between in/into/down in this context even if they might not be used in the heat of the moment. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.219|162.158.74.219]] 13:41, 27 November 2020 (UTC) | I don't believe that Ponytail is misunderstanding anything. Ponytail (correctly) understands that the speaker-in-a-hole is in a hole and got there by means of falling. The joke is, rather than help the person out of the hole (as just about any normal human, linguist or not, would do), Ponytail sees an opportunity to do some field research, asking whether falling down a hole means the same thing to the unseen speaker as falling in a hole, or if there are subtle differences between the two. Most, if not all, native speakers of English would understand the meaning, but as you can see from the comments here, we do _have_ subtle differences between in/into/down in this context even if they might not be used in the heat of the moment. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.219|162.158.74.219]] 13:41, 27 November 2020 (UTC) | ||
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