Editing Talk:2542: Daylight Calendar
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If I knew where to start (too many assumptions needed), I'd be tempted to make an "xkcd Calendar" that works like the [[1335|xkcd Clock]], but there are so many possible configurations (e.g. when is the 'epoch' of synchronisation? When do you count daylight from/to? Do you assume 6AM day-starts and work up from there?) before you then have to plug in your lat/lon to get your highly personalised datetime result that may well differ significatly even from someone a few miles away, when the time-boundaries involved have misaligned just enough and haven't shifted back together again (perhaps!) by the next epoch-point... [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.20|141.101.99.20]] 01:34, 16 November 2021 (UTC) | If I knew where to start (too many assumptions needed), I'd be tempted to make an "xkcd Calendar" that works like the [[1335|xkcd Clock]], but there are so many possible configurations (e.g. when is the 'epoch' of synchronisation? When do you count daylight from/to? Do you assume 6AM day-starts and work up from there?) before you then have to plug in your lat/lon to get your highly personalised datetime result that may well differ significatly even from someone a few miles away, when the time-boundaries involved have misaligned just enough and haven't shifted back together again (perhaps!) by the next epoch-point... [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.20|141.101.99.20]] 01:34, 16 November 2021 (UTC) | ||
:If you use the same epoch for everyone, the date and time would sync up within each timezone once a year, on the anniversary of the epoch. If everyone just naively starts at their then-current date/time on the switch date, then the switch date is the epoch. The ideal epoch and switch date for minimizing confusion would be midnight January 1st; this also has precedent (e.g., the Unix epoch is midnight January 1st 1970). This leaves the question of whether to start each day's time at 00:00:00, or start it at whatever you have to start it at to make noon happen at 12:00:00. The latter would mean starting the clock at negative times in the summer, positive in winter, and any given latitude's start-of-day times would average out pretty close to 00:06 over the course of a year. (The average wouldn't be _exactly_ 00:06 with infinite precision over a single year, because you're only averaging a finite number of days. But the average would asymptotically approach 00:06 over large numbers of years (unless the DST change being not-at-midnight or leap days being not-at-New-Year throws it off in a systematic way; but I am guessing this proposed calendar would replace and obviate DST; leap seconds *are* added at midnight, so they're ok; that leaves leap days as a potential monkey wrench if they aren't moved to align with the epoch), and it would be "close enough" for garden variety everyday purposes even after just one year.) --[[User:Tsadok|Tsadok]] | :If you use the same epoch for everyone, the date and time would sync up within each timezone once a year, on the anniversary of the epoch. If everyone just naively starts at their then-current date/time on the switch date, then the switch date is the epoch. The ideal epoch and switch date for minimizing confusion would be midnight January 1st; this also has precedent (e.g., the Unix epoch is midnight January 1st 1970). This leaves the question of whether to start each day's time at 00:00:00, or start it at whatever you have to start it at to make noon happen at 12:00:00. The latter would mean starting the clock at negative times in the summer, positive in winter, and any given latitude's start-of-day times would average out pretty close to 00:06 over the course of a year. (The average wouldn't be _exactly_ 00:06 with infinite precision over a single year, because you're only averaging a finite number of days. But the average would asymptotically approach 00:06 over large numbers of years (unless the DST change being not-at-midnight or leap days being not-at-New-Year throws it off in a systematic way; but I am guessing this proposed calendar would replace and obviate DST; leap seconds *are* added at midnight, so they're ok; that leaves leap days as a potential monkey wrench if they aren't moved to align with the epoch), and it would be "close enough" for garden variety everyday purposes even after just one year.) --[[User:Tsadok|Tsadok]] | ||
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I know it is released close to daylight saving change. But has it actually anything to do with that? It is not mentioned at all, and only the darkness of November has any relation to the change. I'm not sure I would include it in the DST category... Randall has often made it clear that he dislikes DST but this new calendar is no guarantee they would not also include DST anyway. Hopefully we will stop with the DST in Europe from next year, so that we will not change back to summer time next spring! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 07:53, 16 November 2021 (UTC) | I know it is released close to daylight saving change. But has it actually anything to do with that? It is not mentioned at all, and only the darkness of November has any relation to the change. I'm not sure I would include it in the DST category... Randall has often made it clear that he dislikes DST but this new calendar is no guarantee they would not also include DST anyway. Hopefully we will stop with the DST in Europe from next year, so that we will not change back to summer time next spring! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 07:53, 16 November 2021 (UTC) | ||
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:But a bit of looking around suggests that today anywhere around 70°N has less than 4 hours of daylight so would easily need three ''full'' daylights in a row (or all-but) and possible unconsidered fractions of the neighbouring days depending on how the modified day-boundries land, which you may wish to ignore if you're strict). Wainwright, AK, would qualify, amongst other US settlements (most with native-names) and a number of Canadian ones, assuming you mean North from the US. There's Denmark (i.e. Greenland), Norway/Sweden/Finland and of course Russia with places too. Murmansk is slightly too far south today, I think, but I haven't checked for later dates in November and I'm sure it'll get included before too much longer. | :But a bit of looking around suggests that today anywhere around 70°N has less than 4 hours of daylight so would easily need three ''full'' daylights in a row (or all-but) and possible unconsidered fractions of the neighbouring days depending on how the modified day-boundries land, which you may wish to ignore if you're strict). Wainwright, AK, would qualify, amongst other US settlements (most with native-names) and a number of Canadian ones, assuming you mean North from the US. There's Denmark (i.e. Greenland), Norway/Sweden/Finland and of course Russia with places too. Murmansk is slightly too far south today, I think, but I haven't checked for later dates in November and I'm sure it'll get included before too much longer. | ||
:Looking for a current six-hour daylight (i.e. any daylight not included in the period the day trips over upon is exactly made up for at the beginning of the third day touched before the new-calendar day ends) suggests reaching ~65°N will suffice, which adds a fair few other places 'up north' that would apply to right now.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.32|141.101.99.32]] 21:15, 16 November 2021 (UTC) | :Looking for a current six-hour daylight (i.e. any daylight not included in the period the day trips over upon is exactly made up for at the beginning of the third day touched before the new-calendar day ends) suggests reaching ~65°N will suffice, which adds a fair few other places 'up north' that would apply to right now.[[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.32|141.101.99.32]] 21:15, 16 November 2021 (UTC) | ||
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