Editing Talk:2638: Extended NFPA Hazard Diamond

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Are we going to try identifying what material this is? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.82.179|172.70.82.179]] 01:50, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
:first one off the top of my head, aqua regia? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.38.69|172.70.38.69]] 02:46, 28 June 2022 (UTC)Bumpf
::Doesn't aqua regia score a 0 in reactivity? [[User:N-eh|N-eh]] ([[User talk:N-eh|talk]]) 03:23, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
::Or maybe Aqua Velva? That would explain the orange square, although maybe it would be a number larger than 1. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.34.171|172.70.34.171]] 22:49, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
:My guess would be something radioactive, like uranium or plutonium. [[User:Clam|Clam]] ([[User talk:Clam|talk]]) 03:29, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
::There are very, very few Health 4 / Fire 0 / Instability 2 compounds. The NIH database lists 4: nitrous oxide, phosphorus oxychloride, phosphorous trichloride, and thionyl chloride (although it's important to note these values aren't always standardized; some authorities consider phosphorus oxychloride to be Health 3, for example). Based on the street value and the number of US agencies who would be concerned about it, my guess is thionyl chloride, a useful industrial chemical which is also used in at least one meth lab synthesis pathway... AND highly regulated as a chemical weapon precursor (to both sulfur mustard and G-series nerve agents). Oh, and it is absolutely a Disposal Pain 4 candidate, too. [[User:Qalyar|Qalyar]] ([[User talk:Qalyar|talk]]) 04:52, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
:::Not sure what source you consulted for this? Nitrous oxide is 2/0/0/OX and phosphorus oxychloride is 3/0/2/W. The last two you mentioned are 4/0/2 but also carry the W (reacts with water) which is missing in Randall's sign. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.81|172.70.214.81]] 01:04, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
::::[https://webwiser.nlm.nih.gov/changeSearchNFPA This] search tool from the NIH. I'll blame them for any weirdness (and admittedly, I was a bit surprised to see nitrous oxide at 4/0/2). [[User:Qalyar|Qalyar]] ([[User talk:Qalyar|talk]]) 01:54, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
: It could be the drop ceiling - if it's even moderately unstable that would certainly make it a hazard; it would be a pain in the arse to dispose of; there are probably a few agencies with an interest building regs, etc. that would want to know about it. I'm not sure what kind of street price it would command, though. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.211|172.70.85.211]] 16:20, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
:It could be something that wouldn't normally be classified as a material, like a velociraptor. I'd think more government agencies would want to know about their existence in reality, but it's possible in this universe their existence is less atypical. [[User:Edda|Edda]] ([[User talk:Edda|talk]]) 00:03 29 June 2022 (UTC)
::Velociraptors would be quite lightweight and extremely valuable, though, so I suspect the street value would be higher. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.62|172.70.91.62]] 08:40, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

The center square is a free space, but if you win without it you get a special bonus prize. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.42.129|172.70.42.129]] 04:18, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Given Randall's fixation with velociraptors, is anyone else thinking the "dropped ceiling" may be a reference to the labs in Jurassic Park?
:Possible. The first thing I had to think of was HalfLife (ie Black Mesa). [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 07:34, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
:Since as a German I never heard of a dropped ceiling before, I automatically assumed it's a ceiling that drops on you. Ouch. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.102.117|172.71.102.117]] 19:28, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
:: We call them "Zwischendecke" ;) [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 08:42, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
::: As an English speaker myself (rightpondian), I had to say I never knew the term before this comic. To me, they always were "suspended ceilings" (as, apparently, pretty much all the patents for them are, when I checked). Or maybe "false ceiling" but that might include no-gap re-lining to make a plaster ceiling look like it's wood. But "drop ceiling" (reminiscent of the "drop bear"!) is yet another thing our leftpodian cousins surprise me with. ;)
::: (Sometimes the gap itself is known to me as "crawlspace", though of course you rarely can physically crawl there, not being man-rated (nor ever having ventilation-ducts of convenient me-size, because we tend not to do that so much in the UK), and I've never felt I could escape (say) velociraptors by heading up there, but it's definitely where I "crawl" cables, every now and then, adding new network cables to any given office space, and I can tell you how dusty it gets up there. I've never thought it more than 'ambient' dust, as nice or nasty as that might be considered, but as I feed/thrown cables around from one edge of a room to another I find that it's best done at the end of a work day, and not just so I don't have to work around those who sit beneath...) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.173|172.70.90.173]] 11:37, 29 June 2022 (UTC)


Does Randall watch Warsaw local news? Yesterday [https://tvn24.pl/tvnwarszawa/mokotow/warszawa-wilanow-ul-branickiego-straz-miejska-interweniowala-w-sprawie-walacego-sie-budynku-5766504 there was an article about an accident with dropped ceiling]. Accident with dropped ceiling next day on xkcd gave me uncanny feeling. [[User:Tkopec|Tkopec]] ([[User talk:Tkopec|talk]]) 09:31, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
:I was wondering whether the whole thing was inspired by the {{w|2022 Aqaba toxic gas leak}}, that it was published well within a day of. Probably not (because 'too soon', especially with deciding what humour to add, assuming he started from scratch) but he might well have heard of it even as he was already mid-way through the drawing/publishing process and felt it ok to press ahead (perhaps modified to make it ''less'' likely to be directly associated in some way).
:Not worth an in-explanation (or Trivia) mention, but saying it here as a dismissable aside. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.5|172.70.162.5]] 13:58, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

The "''Number of times it's caused one of those terrifying lab accidents that chemists tell scary stories about late at night -> 2''" reminds me of the [https://www.science.org/topic/blog-category/things-i-wont-work-with Things I Won't Work With] category on Derek's Lowe blog, including famous [https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/sand-won-t-save-you-time Sand Won't Save You This Time] article about dangers of chlorine trifluoride, with a few ''scary stories'' included. --[[User:JakubNarebski|JakubNarebski]] ([[User talk:JakubNarebski|talk]]) 11:04, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
:The "smelling weird" one made me remember the one about  [https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/things-i-won-t-work-thioacetone thioacetone]--[[Special:Contributions/172.71.114.63|172.71.114.63]] 12:53, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
:How about the aliens going through the ceiling crawlspaces in "Aliens"? [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 17:46, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

"Weird lab where it's about the soda machine" example, from the Bourne Physics/Chemistry Building at Royal Holloway, University of London (but I'm struggling to find a source I can cite) had a story that was always told on "new student tours" / open days etc. There's a corridor there where an odd pattern of the floor tiles don't match, approx down the middle of most of one corridor, to the vending machine at the end of the hall, which also has 2 mismatched buttons. It's not 100% clear what the unlucky individual did to become highly radioactive, but he then allegedly decided he needed a drink. Later, the clean-up crew, after decontaminating the room where the accident occurred, could tell using a Geiger Counter exactly what route the guy took to the soda machine, including where he staggered - particular floor tiles were radioactive enough to remove and dispose of as "radioactive waste", replacing them with tiles that evidently didn't match the originals very well. Similarly, from the 2 mis-matched buttons on the machine, you can tell from what row/col the unfortunate victim ordered as his last drink. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.241.9|108.162.241.9]] 02:58, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

I don't want to get involved in someone's edit-war, but I think the reasonings behind [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2638:_Extended_NFPA_Hazard_Diamond&diff=prev&oldid=288088 this edit] are easily refutable:
* ''all other squares have descriptions'' - yes, but all other squares have arrows to indicate an externalised description, there's no reason to believe that this would not have an arrow pointed at it from outside ''or'' inside, at a push. It may even be self-descriptive, but there's no reason to believe it isn't fully diagetic
* ''parenthesis wouldn't be used for a symbol'' - but a strikethrough would? Because it is...
** If anything, less ludicrous (potentially a strike against my final theory, mentioned below, which I will admit for completeness)
** You would have better mentioned that it's big and entire words, not a diagraph/monograph abbreviation, but you didn't (and I think it wouldn't work as "SH"/whatever anyway, at any level of joke).
** Parentheses aren't used for any other non-diagetic label, though we could argue the toss about whether they are the ''replacement'' for the arrow (which I think could have been drawn just as easily) and I think this aspect is a stalemate in this particular argument, but it's one I did consider when thinking about the merits of the various edits.
* ''and "Special Hazard" is the square description synonym used in the non-Wikipedia reference link at the top of the table'' - not "Special Notice"? (The link may have changed since I first followed it, with interest, as we don't have these diamonds over here, we use {{w|Hazchem}} boards... nothing like seeing a bit of 3YE flammable liquid on the move! ...but whereve I first checked it certainly wasn't "Special Hazard".)
...I think it is intended as a rather clever self-referential joke. Why leave the square empty, except for the rather boring 'real' description? At least the other three standard sub-diamonds have some food for thought in their indicated values. Very unlike Randall to do ''nothing'' in that space when all kinds of real fun could have been had. I think I also believe (along with at least one other editor out there) that this is the particular fun that he decided to have with it. Much more believable than the alternative, IMO. (YMMV, HTH, HAND, ETLA...) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.61|162.158.34.61]] 23:25, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

: Absolutely not. None of the even non-standard symbols are more than four capital letters long. If Randall had meant the text to be anything other than a description, he would have used '''SH'''. The link that calls the white square "Special Hazard" is http://www.ilpi.com/msds/ref/nfpa.html Furthermore, what exactly is the joke supposed to be, again? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.52|172.70.211.52]] 00:33, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
::(Isn't most of that already fully covered by 162.etc... New arguments are needed, or write it as maybe/maybe not. I think absolutes are unlikely to prove, either way.)
::Some other editor said they changed the description of Special Hazard (not the transcripted contents, but the reality of the actual square) to "Special Notice", for apparently good reasons related to some link, IIRC, but maybe that's inconsistencies in how the standards-body documents it or something.
::But whatever.... not my argument.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.77|172.70.162.77]] 01:28, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

::I agree with 172.70.211.52 that this is a mistaken idea and should be removed from the explanation. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.132.96|172.68.132.96]] 22:35, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
@@ Line 41: / Line 41: @@
 * ''and "Special Hazard" is the square description synonym used in the non-Wikipedia reference link at the top of the table'' - not "Special Notice"? (The link may have changed since I first followed it, with interest, as we don't have these diamonds over here, we use {{w|Hazchem}} boards... nothing like seeing a bit of 3YE flammable liquid on the move! ...but whereve I first checked it certainly wasn't "Special Hazard".)
 ...I think it is intended as a rather clever self-referential joke. Why leave the square empty, except for the rather boring 'real' description? At least the other three standard sub-diamonds have some food for thought in their indicated values. Very unlike Randall to do ''nothing'' in that space when all kinds of real fun could have been had. I think I also believe (along with at least one other editor out there) that this is the particular fun that he decided to have with it. Much more believable than the alternative, IMO. (YMMV, HTH, HAND, ETLA...) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.61|162.158.34.61]] 23:25, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
-::If it wasn't for the parentheses I would agree with you. The argument is far from a "stalemate" and the fact you would suggest it is leads me to think that you care more about advancing an implausible pet theory than providing a high quality explanation. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.175|172.69.33.175]] 17:50, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
-:::I don't know if it's just you, but there's been a spate of censorious editings recently. I don't much care, but it looks like someone who thinks they have the ultimate view on all articles without even the courage to put a username behind their changes. (Don't have a strong opinion myself, and I don't mind so much if articles are made less than explanatory, given someone else can always improve them again if they think there's something 'new' to add, even years down the line.) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.147|141.101.98.147]] 05:29, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
 : Absolutely not. None of the even non-standard symbols are more than four capital letters long. If Randall had meant the text to be anything other than a description, he would have used '''SH'''. The link that calls the white square "Special Hazard" is http://www.ilpi.com/msds/ref/nfpa.html Furthermore, what exactly is the joke supposed to be, again? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.52|172.70.211.52]] 00:33, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
@@ Line 49: / Line 47: @@
 ::But whatever.... not my argument.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.77|172.70.162.77]] 01:28, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
-:I agree with 172.70.211.52 that this is a mistaken idea and should be removed from the explanation. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.132.96|172.68.132.96]] 22:35, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
+::I agree with 172.70.211.52 that this is a mistaken idea and should be removed from the explanation. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.132.96|172.68.132.96]] 22:35, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
-::As it's being argued over again, with an absolutist (or maybe "absolutely not!"-ist) unilateral wish to remove all such speculation, I'm just gonna mention that [[1815|'unintentional']] and [[2528|intentional]] literalism is a recurring xkcd theme for depictions of symbolic pennants, whatever the actual degree of intention this time round. From "Ha ha... No, never actually thought to do that" through to "*sigh* - I shouldn't need to explain the whole joke, folks! You take this far too seriously''[1]'', just enjoy the bits you understand...". If you go and pester Randall on Twitter/whatever and get his word that it's the former, then perhaps you can consign it to "confirmed not to be this", but then you'd be obliged to report the possibility in order to show the refutation itself, so probably counter-productive even if proven correct... ;) Leaving it as "it possibly might be..."/whatever the best wording, however, does not make any insistance that it ''is'', but certainly adds something to the kind of person like me who likes to see what others have gotten from the comic (however wrong). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.64|172.70.86.64]] 16:06, 14 July 2022 (UTC)
-:::[1] Incidentally, I think I'd be right to say that sometimes we do! Often even! ^_^
-::::I have proposed a [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=2638:_Extended_NFPA_Hazard_Diamond&diff=288836&oldid=288828 compromise using small text.] [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.36|172.70.211.36]] 16:23, 14 July 2022 (UTC)