Editing Talk:2704: Faucet
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+ | VERY RELEVANT ASIDE | ||
+ | Why aren't there digital faucets? And if this is such a bold idea It's mine | ||
+ | 14:45, 29 November 2022 (UTC) paradoxical | ||
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Are faucet designs considered to be confusing? I'm never confused by normal ones like [https://www.ikea.com/us/en/images/products/sundsvik-kitchen-faucet-chrome-plated__0756711_pe749051_s5.jpg?f=s these] {{unsigned|Flekkie|02:12, 29 November 2022}} | Are faucet designs considered to be confusing? I'm never confused by normal ones like [https://www.ikea.com/us/en/images/products/sundsvik-kitchen-faucet-chrome-plated__0756711_pe749051_s5.jpg?f=s these] {{unsigned|Flekkie|02:12, 29 November 2022}} | ||
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:: Funny, the absolute worst faucet I experienced was in this fall in England (which is part of Europe for some definitions but not others). The temperature selection knob had 180° ambiguity---especially for my poor vision when uncorrected---and no barrier between maximum hot and maximum cold. So, I spent a shower thinking I was operating at mid-range and wondering why there seemed to be no middle ground between freezing cold and scalding hot. Fortunately had an epiphany while exploring the town. [[User:Philhower|Philhower]] ([[User talk:Philhower|talk]]) 14:13, 29 November 2022 (UTC) | :: Funny, the absolute worst faucet I experienced was in this fall in England (which is part of Europe for some definitions but not others). The temperature selection knob had 180° ambiguity---especially for my poor vision when uncorrected---and no barrier between maximum hot and maximum cold. So, I spent a shower thinking I was operating at mid-range and wondering why there seemed to be no middle ground between freezing cold and scalding hot. Fortunately had an epiphany while exploring the town. [[User:Philhower|Philhower]] ([[User talk:Philhower|talk]]) 14:13, 29 November 2022 (UTC) | ||
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I sympathize with Randall here; even controls designed to independently control temperature and flow rarely meet both the "intuitive to use at a glance" and "function as described" requirements to make them non-confusing. [[User:Dextrous Fred|Dextrous Fred]] ([[User talk:Dextrous Fred|talk]]) 03:44, 29 November 2022 (UTC) | I sympathize with Randall here; even controls designed to independently control temperature and flow rarely meet both the "intuitive to use at a glance" and "function as described" requirements to make them non-confusing. [[User:Dextrous Fred|Dextrous Fred]] ([[User talk:Dextrous Fred|talk]]) 03:44, 29 November 2022 (UTC) | ||
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: I suppose the issue with that is that, unlike simple mixer taps that control the flow of hot and cold water independently, relying on the human to find the right mixture that creates the desired flow and temperature, what you're describing requires a more complex system that is able to do that process automatically, so it can't be a simple mechanical valve. It would require temperature and pressure sensors for both the hot and cold water streams, and it would have to dynamically adjust the physical valve settings depending on all six parameters (position of the flow handle/slider/knob, position of the temperature handle/slider/knob, temperature of the hot water, temperature of the cold water, pressure of the hot water, pressure of the cold water). I'm not even sure this is possible with a fully mechanical system — likely some electronics would need to be involved, which might complicate things. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 10:50, 29 November 2022 (UTC) | : I suppose the issue with that is that, unlike simple mixer taps that control the flow of hot and cold water independently, relying on the human to find the right mixture that creates the desired flow and temperature, what you're describing requires a more complex system that is able to do that process automatically, so it can't be a simple mechanical valve. It would require temperature and pressure sensors for both the hot and cold water streams, and it would have to dynamically adjust the physical valve settings depending on all six parameters (position of the flow handle/slider/knob, position of the temperature handle/slider/knob, temperature of the hot water, temperature of the cold water, pressure of the hot water, pressure of the cold water). I'm not even sure this is possible with a fully mechanical system — likely some electronics would need to be involved, which might complicate things. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 10:50, 29 November 2022 (UTC) | ||
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This is probably the very first xkcd comic where I have absolutely no idea where Randal is coming from. While different people have different preferences for different designs, I've never heard of anyone being confused by any faucet design. | This is probably the very first xkcd comic where I have absolutely no idea where Randal is coming from. While different people have different preferences for different designs, I've never heard of anyone being confused by any faucet design. | ||
Maybe he's trolling us, by trying to get a rise out of people wondering what the hell he's talking about? [[User:Bischoff|Bischoff]] ([[User talk:Bischoff|talk]]) 08:20, 29 November 2022 (UTC) | Maybe he's trolling us, by trying to get a rise out of people wondering what the hell he's talking about? [[User:Bischoff|Bischoff]] ([[User talk:Bischoff|talk]]) 08:20, 29 November 2022 (UTC) | ||
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This may be a reference to "Design of Everyday Things - Dan Norman" or books in that direction. Although he talked a lot more about creating doors wrong he also mentioned faucet designs as terrible. [[Special:Contributions/198.41.242.29|198.41.242.29]] 09:17, 29 November 2022 (UTC) | This may be a reference to "Design of Everyday Things - Dan Norman" or books in that direction. Although he talked a lot more about creating doors wrong he also mentioned faucet designs as terrible. [[Special:Contributions/198.41.242.29|198.41.242.29]] 09:17, 29 November 2022 (UTC) | ||
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:I think it could be, but he is looking different with the hair and because of the scruffy looks his hair standing up could be because he has torn in it. I think it is better not to include it as a Hairy comic. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:34, 29 November 2022 (UTC) | :I think it could be, but he is looking different with the hair and because of the scruffy looks his hair standing up could be because he has torn in it. I think it is better not to include it as a Hairy comic. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:34, 29 November 2022 (UTC) | ||
− | Is it too pedantic to point out the distinction between a helix (the shape of the control) and a spiral (mentioned by the character)? | + | Is it too pedantic to point out the distinction between a helix (the shape of the control) and a spiral (mentioned by the character)? |
:Not really, but it could be a very shallow (by radial increase/decrease per turn) 3D spiral, I'm more concerned by the "tightening", wondering if it's a flexible spiral/helix that is manipulated dynamically, rather than merely a tap* with a funny-shaped handle/head to rotate through into the backplate. | :Not really, but it could be a very shallow (by radial increase/decrease per turn) 3D spiral, I'm more concerned by the "tightening", wondering if it's a flexible spiral/helix that is manipulated dynamically, rather than merely a tap* with a funny-shaped handle/head to rotate through into the backplate. | ||
::<nowiki>*</nowiki> - 'faucet' just makes me wait for a "force it" pun. It's a very American word that I'm not personally aware of being used throught the rest of the anglosphere. Maybe Canada, but probably not Aus/NZ/etc if my uptake of their TV/film exports is correctly remembered... Somebody may want to correct me on this issue, or add English As A Second Language metrics to this. | ::<nowiki>*</nowiki> - 'faucet' just makes me wait for a "force it" pun. It's a very American word that I'm not personally aware of being used throught the rest of the anglosphere. Maybe Canada, but probably not Aus/NZ/etc if my uptake of their TV/film exports is correctly remembered... Somebody may want to correct me on this issue, or add English As A Second Language metrics to this. | ||
:What is also interesting is that the 3D-perspective drawing by our in-frame inventor, upon the perspectivised drawing surface as depicted by Randall, makes it look like very much like an actual sticky-outy object within the drawn world. Like it's actually a moulded/similar relief model/mockup, surrounded by the more standard 'wall notes' used to suggest on-the-go calculations/annotations. An interesting artistic choice (or possibly an unintentional consequence) by Randall. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.61|172.70.86.61]] 11:13, 29 November 2022 (UTC) | :What is also interesting is that the 3D-perspective drawing by our in-frame inventor, upon the perspectivised drawing surface as depicted by Randall, makes it look like very much like an actual sticky-outy object within the drawn world. Like it's actually a moulded/similar relief model/mockup, surrounded by the more standard 'wall notes' used to suggest on-the-go calculations/annotations. An interesting artistic choice (or possibly an unintentional consequence) by Randall. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.86.61|172.70.86.61]] 11:13, 29 November 2022 (UTC) | ||
− | I think it should be added that the issue is mainly for the US. In Europe, and in the other of the rest of the world - except US - the thermostatic head has replaced most other faucet in shower, and the hand washing is not so much of an issue. My shower in some US hotels were a nightmare, where I remember taking multiple minute to understand how it might work. {{unsigned ip|172.71.130.80 | + | I think it should be added that the issue is mainly for the US. In Europe, and in the other of the rest of the world - except US - the thermostatic head has replaced most other faucet in shower, and the hand washing is not so much of an issue. My shower in some US hotels were a nightmare, where I remember taking multiple minute to understand how it might work. {{unsigned ip|172.71.130.80}} |
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− | I think it should be added that the issue is mainly for Europe, especially Americans traveling in Europe. In the USA, where proportioning valves are common and anti-scald protection is mandated by code, controls are both intuitive and safe. {{unsigned ip|172.70.210.49 | + | I think it should be added that the issue is mainly for Europe, especially Americans traveling in Europe. In the USA, where proportioning valves are common and anti-scald protection is mandated by code, controls are both intuitive and safe. {{unsigned ip|172.70.210.49}} |
:So funny that these two comments in a row says the opposite. I'm from Denmark and where I sometimes dislike the designs of a faucet I have almost never found one for a tap that was a problem to understand. Sure for a shower there can be some issues, mainly because it can be too hot and problematic to stand under them when turning them on the first time. But it seems to me that this is not a serious problem in Europe. And from reading above it seems like this is in fact a US problem only. But the last comment says the opposite. by the way both sigantures unsigned, so did a check and found they where from two different IP and with time between. Was wondering if someone was trolling by writing the same comment twice with reversed meaning. But seems to not be the case. Have added signatures now. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:34, 29 November 2022 (UTC) | :So funny that these two comments in a row says the opposite. I'm from Denmark and where I sometimes dislike the designs of a faucet I have almost never found one for a tap that was a problem to understand. Sure for a shower there can be some issues, mainly because it can be too hot and problematic to stand under them when turning them on the first time. But it seems to me that this is not a serious problem in Europe. And from reading above it seems like this is in fact a US problem only. But the last comment says the opposite. by the way both sigantures unsigned, so did a check and found they where from two different IP and with time between. Was wondering if someone was trolling by writing the same comment twice with reversed meaning. But seems to not be the case. Have added signatures now. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 13:34, 29 November 2022 (UTC) | ||
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::I have traveled to the UK multiple times and lived there for some time. It was mostly the same, though I have seen some dual-taps (essentially type 1 but with one tap per knob). It may be a bad user experience, but it is not confusing. | ::I have traveled to the UK multiple times and lived there for some time. It was mostly the same, though I have seen some dual-taps (essentially type 1 but with one tap per knob). It may be a bad user experience, but it is not confusing. | ||
::I have been to multiple other countries on short trips and do not remember any confusing faucets... except for one US hotel. That devilish shower had a single-knob control; the temperature increased over the whole range, and the flow was maximum at mid-range. I did not mind much that it does not explore the whole shower-space (the trajectory in the flow-temperature diagram was probably a super-optimized curve rather than a straight inverted V); but I did mind that it took a few minutes of exploration to understand what happened. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.126.15|172.71.126.15]] 16:07, 29 November 2022 (UTC) | ::I have been to multiple other countries on short trips and do not remember any confusing faucets... except for one US hotel. That devilish shower had a single-knob control; the temperature increased over the whole range, and the flow was maximum at mid-range. I did not mind much that it does not explore the whole shower-space (the trajectory in the flow-temperature diagram was probably a super-optimized curve rather than a straight inverted V); but I did mind that it took a few minutes of exploration to understand what happened. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.126.15|172.71.126.15]] 16:07, 29 November 2022 (UTC) | ||
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My interpretation is that, for normal people, designing an intuitive faucet is easy: just one knob for temperature and another for flow. But designers seem to get overly creative for faucets and add all sorts of odd handles and gizmos. Figuring out a faucet at a hotel is often a task. Hence, in the comic, the designer is adding some sort of bizarre spiral handle when a regular one would be much easier. It's not that its hard to design a good faucet, but designers seem to have an odd blind spot for them. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.110.230|172.70.110.230]] 13:48, 29 November 2022 (UTC) | My interpretation is that, for normal people, designing an intuitive faucet is easy: just one knob for temperature and another for flow. But designers seem to get overly creative for faucets and add all sorts of odd handles and gizmos. Figuring out a faucet at a hotel is often a task. Hence, in the comic, the designer is adding some sort of bizarre spiral handle when a regular one would be much easier. It's not that its hard to design a good faucet, but designers seem to have an odd blind spot for them. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.110.230|172.70.110.230]] 13:48, 29 November 2022 (UTC) | ||
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