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| | :::::::::''<sup>*</sup> - when applicable. It turns out I was slightly wrong about one thing. GMT becomes BST at 01:00GMT on the last Sunday in March, with EST becoming EDT having changed already on the second Sunday in March (typically two weeks earlier, but depends upon the number of Sundays that cram into the month) ''and'' BST->GMT happens on the last Sunday of October whilst EDT->EST on first Sunday in November (one week apart, regardless).'' | | :::::::::''<sup>*</sup> - when applicable. It turns out I was slightly wrong about one thing. GMT becomes BST at 01:00GMT on the last Sunday in March, with EST becoming EDT having changed already on the second Sunday in March (typically two weeks earlier, but depends upon the number of Sundays that cram into the month) ''and'' BST->GMT happens on the last Sunday of October whilst EDT->EST on first Sunday in November (one week apart, regardless).'' |
| | :::::::::''Unless things have changed since I thought one end matched the other, I was incorrect about having to only track the "different difference" between me and my transatlantic colleagues once a year (also those on the Pacific-coast at 8hrs±dif, but Japanese contacts were so far adrift it didn't really matter and Europe-wide we were already in synch as far as DST shifts), but for three (or four) weeks a year, I'd have to deal with GMT->EDT conversions (4 hours difference, and I think 7 for the likes of San Diego) when deciding when to schedule an afternoon teleconference that wasn't quite so inconveniently early in the morning for them but still meant I didn't have to stick around too far into the evening. - ...end of overlyextended footnote!'' | | :::::::::''Unless things have changed since I thought one end matched the other, I was incorrect about having to only track the "different difference" between me and my transatlantic colleagues once a year (also those on the Pacific-coast at 8hrs±dif, but Japanese contacts were so far adrift it didn't really matter and Europe-wide we were already in synch as far as DST shifts), but for three (or four) weeks a year, I'd have to deal with GMT->EDT conversions (4 hours difference, and I think 7 for the likes of San Diego) when deciding when to schedule an afternoon teleconference that wasn't quite so inconveniently early in the morning for them but still meant I didn't have to stick around too far into the evening. - ...end of overlyextended footnote!'' |
| − | :::::::::Interesting diversion this, but probably not worth taking so much space on here. If I had an account, I'd move it to my User/User Talk pages. If you still wish to chat about it and wish to cut'ncopy it into ''yours'', I'm sure we can continue at your pleasure, but right now I'm just Collapsing this section for the sanity of the lay-visitor to this article. Without depriving you, me or the other contributors to this tete-a-tete of its rather oddly-formed fruits. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.109|172.70.85.109]] 12:32, 24 June 2023 (UTC)
| + | ::::::::Interesting diversion this, but probably not worth taking so much space on here. If I had an account, I'd move it to my User/User Talk pages. If you still wish to chat about it and wish to cut'ncopy it into ''yours'', I'm sure we can continue at your pleasure, but right now I'm just Collapsing this section for the sanity of the lay-visitor to this article. Without depriving you, me or the other contributors to this tete-a-tete of its rather oddly-formed fruits. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.109|172.70.85.109]] 12:32, 24 June 2023 (UTC) |
| − | ::::::::::The thing is, blaming Daylight Savings Time is a nice try, but my timezone being GMT -5 is year-round, and though I haven't taken careful note, it seems like my comments on here are +4 year-round as well. It appears that neither of the things I'm saying are affected by Daylight Savings.
| + | :::::::::The thing is, blaming Daylight Savings Time is a nice try, but my timezone being GMT -5 is year-round, and though I haven't taken careful note, it seems like my comments on here are +4 year-round as well. It appears that neither of the things I'm saying are affected by Daylight Savings. |
| − | ::::::::::Although I too had noticed that this has become a rather large diversion, size-wise (I can't miss how many colons I have to put, LOL!), I myself never seem to get activity on my Talk page - I've only had one for a few months of my years on this site - and so I don't check it, I don't know if I'd even be able to tell if I need to go look. I find this collapsing is an effective elegant solution. Plus this is a lot of content to either move or abandon. Also, due to lack of usernames I don't even know how many people I'm talking to (I sense at least 2), how many people would have to go wherever we relocate... [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 04:05, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
| + | :::::::::Although I too had noticed that this has become a rather large diversion, size-wise (I can't miss how many colons I have to put, LOL!), I myself never seem to get activity on my Talk page - I've only had one for a few months of my years on this site - and so I don't check it, I don't know if I'd even be able to tell if I need to go look. I find this collapsing is an effective elegant solution. Plus this is a lot of content to either move or abandon. Also, due to lack of usernames I don't even know how many people I'm talking to (I sense at least 2), how many people would have to go wherever we relocate... [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 04:05, 25 June 2023 (UTC) |
| − | :::::::::::Play with somehing [https://mskb.pkisolutions.com/kb/886775 like this], or its equivalent (tried some of the provided MSKB links, but they're broken/old). See that you are GMT-5 (UTC-5, by the other name) year-round, except that you're also having DST applied ''to that'' (to become GMT-4), as do those on GMT (to become +1, i.e. BST).
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| − | :::::::::::Imagine the confusion of having to set(/look up) your TZ up as GMT-5 part of the year and GMT-4 for the rest of the year. What you have is "I am baseline GMT-5. And then, because I have ticked 'Use DST' (and it is in the DST period) I am additionally adjusted as required."
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| − | :::::::::::You've also already been given the link to {{w|Greenwich Mean Time}} in which (end of first para, and whole of second para) it confirms that GMT:=BST+0.
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| − | :::::::::::As per differing end-points: [https://www.hanselman.com/blog/daylight-savings-time-and-windows the US shifted the autumnal 'fall back' in 2007], apparently. Passed me, I must admit, but I didn't have much (direct, personal) contact with the US at that time of that year. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.182|172.70.90.182]] 08:14, 25 June 2023 (UTC)
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| − | :::::::::::: WHY would I play with that Uruguay Time Zone tool when my time and timezone are already correct???!? LMAO! That seems like it's meant to change when the computer applies DST, but Microsoft already did that in an update back then. If they missed Uruguay, maybe because Uruguay changed the date some year before North America did, I'd guess Microsoft caught up by now. It's been built into Windows since. The reason you're finding broken links is because the whole concept is outdated and no longer necessary. The problem is, you keep treating me as mistaken when I haven't been. I am GMT -5. I've said that all along, and a couple of times you've told ME, as if I didn't already say it first. At least you seem to FINALLY accept that I'm GMT -5.
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| − | :::::::::::: What '''''_I_''''' want to know now is WHY summer time is known as DST when the entire concept is designed for the WINTER, to adjust the time on the clock to favour daylight while daylight is shorter. It should be winter that's the adjusted time and called DST (making me GST -6 in the winter I guess)... Also, if UTC is another term for GMT, why does it even exist? I'm sure UTC is extremely newer, I never heard of it until I came to this site 5 or 6 years ago. What's wrong with having the site label things as GMT? Like calling this comment 5:11 GMT?[[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 05:11, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
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| − | ...you're a nice guy, NiceGuy1, but at this point I think you're being obtuse. Right now you're running at GMT-5 and in the mainland US then you're in the Central Daylight Time area. And winter is 'natural' time, or as natural as your nation decides it needs to be (c.f. China) to follow the Sun. But the daylight being saved in summer is that daylight between dawn and the time anybody but early-risers will eventually appreciate it. That time is saved, and applied to the end of the day when anybody but an abnormally early-retirer will probably make better use of it. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.79.146|172.69.79.146]] 23:02, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
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| − | :I am NOT Central, I am Eastern, as I've said multiple times, funny how it's the one who's been obtuse all along calling ME obtuse. I'm not the one continuously showing unwillingness to check anything (maybe if you did you'd finally grasp how I'm in the Eastern time zone - whatever the hell they call it this time of year). All I've done is mention two facts that call into question this "UTC=GMT" claim, that my timezone is always labelled "GMT -5" - all year round - and my comments on here get four hours added to reach UTC (it's now about 11:20pm, so I expect this to say 3:20 UTC). And here's a third: If they're the same, why invent the term? GMT is clearly older, and has a location in the name to help people place it, the term is superior in every way. Someone said there's a marginal difference, but that seems foolish and NOT worth a new term.
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| − | :Basically, it seems clear they ARE supposed to be the same, fine, I'm just asking for a resolution to these facts and have received none, really. Combined with sensing immense confusion from you has been frustrating when it seems like I, for one, have been clear all along. Oh, and I think I already said, the only function of Daylight Savings Time has always been to save candles in the winter, align the working day more with daylight hours to minimize how much/long candles are needed in the morning. In the WINTER, when hours are short enough for people to wake up when it's still dark, meaning the "correct" time is summer. Candles, shows how out of date the concept is and how long this has been irrelevant and should have been retired.
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| − | :Oh, and [[386]], :) [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 03:21, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
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| − | ::Well, you're almost right. Apart from apparently not reading the references we provided, nor taking on board any of the stated reasons for your possible confusion. And that {{w|Daylight saving time|it's not (and has never been) about saving candles in ''winter''}}. But otherwise I won't bother to argue. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.143|141.101.98.143]] 11:16, 9 July 2023 (UTC)
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| − | :::Not "almost", fully. I haven't said ONE thing that was incorrect. ''I'M'' the one trying to clear up confusion. Things I've stated, which nobody has disproven, 1) Eastern is GMT -5, 2) UTC is +4 from the Eastern time zone 3) If GMT was the same as UTC, there would be no reason to have the term 4) The only ACTUAL function of Daylight Savings has ever been to save candles and 5) Nobody besides me is checking anything said here (how hard is it to go to your time zone setting and LOOK at it? See which ones name New York, Miami, Toronto, Montreal? See how they're GMT -5?). You just confirmed #5 yourself. And funny, you provide a link to call me wrong without reading it and seeing it confirms what I said: "The idea of aligning waking hours to daylight hours to conserve candles was first proposed in 1784 by U.S. polymath Benjamin Franklin.". Saving candles, as I said. And it's only in the winter that the sun tends to rise AFTER the average person, the only time people might need more light by which to get ready and started in the morning. (FYI, before I created an account, I used to manually put a nickname, so people would know what comments go together. I wish the people I'm trying to help here would do so, because I can't be sure how many people I'm talking to, how many people are being too stubborn to check anything) [[User:NiceGuy1|NiceGuy1]] ([[User talk:NiceGuy1|talk]]) 05:11, 15 July 2023 (UTC)
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| − | ::::Understanding failures:
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| − | ::::# From link on Eastern Time Zone (that you read?) "Eastern <u>Daylight</u> Time (EDT), when observing daylight saving time (spring/summer), are <u>four hours</u> behind Coordinated Universal Time (UTC−04:00)." Which is also GMT-4 (see link about GMT, which you also read?)).
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| − | ::::# ...see point 1.
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| − | ::::# [[927: Standards]] (Note also terminology such as "Zulu Time", for the same thing by yet ''another'' name.) Ok, so technically there's also differences in the treatment of natural astronomical drift, regarding "leap seconds" and any other necessary adjustments. Not that this really effects what time you get up in the morning, to any noticable degree.
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| − | ::::# It may have been candles for Franklin, but that (different implementation) was never actually practiced. For {{w|William Willett}}, it may really have been ''golf'' that drove his suggestion. When it was actually implemented (German states, WW1), it was coal, and it has been more vaguely energy in general since. ''Buf'' social reasons in general probably dominate, these days (longer summer evenings by borrowing from the unused longer summer mornings that few 'normal' people would bother get up earlier for ''without'' everything from school opening times to the TV schedule being shifted en-mass in 'summer'...)
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| − | ::::# It varies in description, depending on system, but if I look at the one that'd clearly be most confusing to you (to best echo what you're seeing/perceiving) I'm in GMT Time Zone (the zone which is based upon GMT±0) with a further tickbox that makes Daylight Savings adjustment active for half the year. Thus, right now, I am running on BST, which is both UTC+1 and GMT+1. But I do not (cannot) select BST. And to choose a (non-DST adjusted) GMT+1 TZ would be 'synchronous' but technically wrong. And would require me to manually relocalise myself again when other clocks return to normal. For this reason, your system probably also (to your confusion) applies +1 for DST ''on top of'' being GMT-5 (and UTC-5) to currently be GMT-4 (as well as UTC-4) without your additional intervention.
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| − | ::::*...you abandon your point-by-poing ramble, so I am now forced to.)
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| − | ::::There's no way to get more daylight than the day provides, so Winter (when there's less of it) reverts to 'natural' time and you 'gain' in the mornings by ''not'' lending daylight to the evening. But you (and your 'candles') are no longer being helped, so the eventually darker mornings (and suddenly much darker evenings) are now unavoidable to everyone who considers themselves a willing slave to the (re-unadjusted) clock. Either accept the shorter periods of light or 'burn the candle(s) at both ends'.
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| − | ::::You said "the only function of Daylight Savings Time has always been to save candles in the winter" ...which I'm sure you now realise is wrong, right? (To be clear,l: DST does not happen in 'winter', but 'summer'. And "only" is somewhat inaccurate, even ignoring that main error.)
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| − | :::: I do hope that clarifies things. Though it may be hard due to the sheer number of things drawn into this discussion... Still, at least I'm ever hopeful. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.180|172.70.162.180]] 09:46, 15 July 2023 (UTC) <=(...if I could ''think'' of a username I particularly liked, I ''might'' have made an account for it. Can't speak for other IPs out there, but that's ''my'' reason...)
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