Editing Talk:2899: Goodhart's Law
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:The above, by 'Moderator' appears to be a meta-joke. i.e. trying to enhance 'times signed', which of course isn't even a useful measure, at the expense of bringing anything useful to the situation. It was even done in just one edit, so didn't even increase the standard 'contributions' measure that an actual target-hitter might try to hit. | :The above, by 'Moderator' appears to be a meta-joke. i.e. trying to enhance 'times signed', which of course isn't even a useful measure, at the expense of bringing anything useful to the situation. It was even done in just one edit, so didn't even increase the standard 'contributions' measure that an actual target-hitter might try to hit. | ||
:Either that or they messed up/have other machinations in mind. But I just thought I'd 'dissect the frog' for future readers. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.165|172.70.91.165]] 04:19, 27 February 2024 (UTC) | :Either that or they messed up/have other machinations in mind. But I just thought I'd 'dissect the frog' for future readers. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.165|172.70.91.165]] 04:19, 27 February 2024 (UTC) | ||
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The main problem with metrics is that there can be too many (everything is a metric, you're chasing targets even if just trying to be the most average and not to be an outlier) or there are too few (everything is 'boiled down' to a single figure of 'success', with no nuance available to work out ''why'' it's marked as "good" rather than "excellant ). Or both at the same time! That said, I think changing a target-system to be a less-worse-target-system is often the worst of all worlds, as every meaningful measure is changed, and/or the means to measure them are changed, all this impinging upon the actual job of work that was actually always supposed to be done, regardless... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.165|172.70.91.165]] 04:19, 27 February 2024 (UTC) | The main problem with metrics is that there can be too many (everything is a metric, you're chasing targets even if just trying to be the most average and not to be an outlier) or there are too few (everything is 'boiled down' to a single figure of 'success', with no nuance available to work out ''why'' it's marked as "good" rather than "excellant ). Or both at the same time! That said, I think changing a target-system to be a less-worse-target-system is often the worst of all worlds, as every meaningful measure is changed, and/or the means to measure them are changed, all this impinging upon the actual job of work that was actually always supposed to be done, regardless... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.91.165|172.70.91.165]] 04:19, 27 February 2024 (UTC) | ||
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:Yes, and no. Metrics in and of themselves have a psychological power and tend to direct attention, and therefore action, to the things being measured. So good incentive design (and other psychological framing) is then needed to counteract that biasing effect.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.28|172.70.90.28]] 14:08, 27 February 2024 (UTC) | :Yes, and no. Metrics in and of themselves have a psychological power and tend to direct attention, and therefore action, to the things being measured. So good incentive design (and other psychological framing) is then needed to counteract that biasing effect.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.28|172.70.90.28]] 14:08, 27 February 2024 (UTC) | ||
:The issue comes in the moment the incentive is to "improve the metric" rather than "improve the thing the metric is intended to indicate." For example, there's the Hot Waitress Economic Index, whereby the sexier the average waitress, the worse the economy is doing (as attractive women usually have no problem getting jobs in sales when the economy is doing well). If someone comes up with the brilliant idea of fixing the economy by recruiting more unattractive waitresses, the metric no longer measures the thing it is supposed to at all. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.247.49|172.69.247.49]] 18:22, 27 February 2024 (UTC) | :The issue comes in the moment the incentive is to "improve the metric" rather than "improve the thing the metric is intended to indicate." For example, there's the Hot Waitress Economic Index, whereby the sexier the average waitress, the worse the economy is doing (as attractive women usually have no problem getting jobs in sales when the economy is doing well). If someone comes up with the brilliant idea of fixing the economy by recruiting more unattractive waitresses, the metric no longer measures the thing it is supposed to at all. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.247.49|172.69.247.49]] 18:22, 27 February 2024 (UTC) | ||
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