Talk:2989: Physics Lab Thermostat

Assuming I did the math right (Units proved the units worked out, but I wouldn't otherwise assume that), holding the energy constant at "room temperature with the normal, global Boltzmann constant" this thermostat varies from 13°C (56°F) on the left to 28°C (82°F) on the right. Holding the temperature constant gives a much harder to interpret range of energies from 4.2 zeptojoules on the left to 4.0 zJ on the right. Turning those back into temperatures with the normal Boltzmann constant gives 29°C (84°F) to 15°C (59°F). Given the reversed scale, I'd assume the former is the intended interpretation, and this thermostat has no effect on local thermal energy, it just adjusts the temperature scale so the number on your (local physical constant variance-compliant) measuring device matches what you asked for. 162.158.62.243 05:28, 24 September 2024 (UTC) Will

No matter the scale, I'm sure glad that this one doesn't go up to 11. Zaktduck (talk) 07:56, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Looking at the page history, I'm wondering if the "edit conflict" didn't kick in for some people. If this edit was performed over at least half an hour (quite possible), it would seem that useful edits (submitted after the start of that big addition) got wiped out. Seems unlikely that warnings happened but were deliberately over-ridden. I know this can sort of happen very soon after article creation (usually doubling-up 'first' edits), but it should have highlit any inadvertant re-editing of an interim-changed paragraph. I generally thought. 172.70.85.18 09:39, 24 September 2024 (UTC) ((Ironically, I got hit by an edit-conflict just now, someone having removed linefeeds above where I'm merely appending this!))

I don't understand it the same way as you guys. Through setting the Boltzmann constant to k=1.380649×10−23 Joules per Kelvin, it's actually the Kelvin that the SI is setting. Thus, changing k in an unchanged universe changes the definition of the Kelvin, and (presumably) of Celsius or Fahrenheit too, meaning that the "temperature" reading of the room is changed without any need for heating or aircon, it's just the number which is adjusted to whatever people ask. --172.71.164.106 10:25, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

I like this explanation. We have a thermostat like that where I work. The numbers change, but the actual temperature does not. --162.158.158.188 11:27, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

As I read it, yes it just changes the thing that relates heat to temperature (thus not changing the sum quantity of heat), but I am not convinced that the derivative idea of Temperature doesn't have some latent qualitative effect upon the experience. The additional amount of heat in a cinder might ignite some flammable substance, the same additional heat in a brick would be barely above its normal temperature, for example. Thus conceivably the temperature from the concentrated heat-source has more bearing upon what results than the less dense 'additional heat' with lower temperature that may never invoke the vapour-threshold/flashpoint.

Without being able to divorce or disassociate the interdependency (together with density/heat-capacith/etc), I can't be sure that such weirdness won't happen, and would not be surprised if things did (e.g. key phase-changes shift around). Like making inertial and gravitational mass independantly evaluated from each kter (if possible) would have certain real-world implications. (As well as hint that there's far more fundamental 'physics' at work than it is assumed that either/both currently are, in either newtonian or einsteinian respects.)

I think the explanation can cover both "just recorded different" and "changes physics" in a broad scope (which is somewhat hinted at right now). But it might be in the eye of the reader (and editor) how well it does that. 172.70.86.38 12:26, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

I note that "AIR" is in all caps. Is it supposed to be an Acronym? 12:28, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

No, that's just for emphasis: it's only the AIR that changes. 172.71.194.171 12:33, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

You are both right. AIR means AIR In Room. Caution: This comment contains recursive text: First you curse, then you curse again. 172.71.167.213 14:07, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Huh... Everyone's saying "Energy is constant, Temperature number is changing.". But in that case, why would he be worried about it affecting things other than air? What if the Temperature was constant, and the Energy was what was changing? Then the dial would be doing something, and his concern over it affecting solids and liquids would be more warranted. 172.70.178.137 15:04, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

The current explanation is terrible: (1) It doesn't explain well, spending way too much time on introductory and trivial pedantry than getting to the point of the joke and the concepts necessary to understand it. (2) It's way too long. And (3) the prose is terrible. My high schoolers wouldn't be allowed to use / as a synonym for "or", but that's just the beginning of the poor style, confusing grammar, and the kind of English which screams neurodiversity and home schooling.

There is no doubt in my mind that ChatGPT can do better. 172.69.33.63 16:14, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Proof:

This comic is playing with the idea of a "physics lab thermostat," but instead of controlling temperature, it humorously suggests adjusting the Boltzmann constant (a constant that links temperature and energy in physics, writen as 1.38×10⁻²³ J/K, where J is joules, a unit of energy, and K is kelvins, a unit of temperature). The dial shows different values for the constant, implying that it can be changed, which is absurd because the Boltzmann constant is a fundamental number that stays the same throughout the universe. In reality, you can't change the Boltzmann constant, so the comic is making fun of the idea of a scientist casually adjusting a fixed law of physics as if it were something simple like room temperature.

If the Boltzmann constant could be changed, it would directly affect how we experience temperature. The constant determines how much energy particles have at a certain temperature. If the constant were increased, more energy would be associated with the same temperature, so everything would feel hotter even if the temperature stayed the same. On the other hand, if the constant were decreased, less energy would be associated with the same temperature, and everything would feel colder than usual.

Beyond just how we feel, altering the Boltzmann constant would disrupt all sorts of processes that depend on temperature, like how fast chemical reactions happen or how heat moves around. A higher constant would make particles move faster and carry more energy at a given temperature, while a lower constant would slow things down.

The title text builds on the absurdity of being able to adjust the Boltzmann constant. It suggests that if the constant could be changed, hopefully, it would only affect the air in the room and not the entire universe. Imagining that the HVAC (Heating, Ventilation, and Air Conditioning) system could contain such a change to just the room's air shows the ridiculousness of trying to isolate the effects of altering a universal constant.

How is that not better in every way than the current human version? 172.70.206.157 16:33, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

It has the usual "Using wikipedia to write a book report on something you haven't read" issue that LLMs have. It retreads the same ground multiple times, explains both the humor and science only in the most surface manner, and gets the effects backwards in the section about particle energy. It also fails to explain the alternate, also humorous, interpretation of keeping pV/T constant while changing only the units we use to measure temperature with no actual effect. Scorpion451 (talk) 17:16, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

It's far more concise than what's up at present. How does it get the effects backwards? It describes the same effects of turning up the dial as the existing explanation. I don't understand the alternate explanation, which I don't think can be an explanation since the comic doesn't refer to pV/T. 172.71.142.47 18:11, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

Yeah I guess I'm dumb since I don't get the explanation either. Is changing the constant basically saying you are changing the definition of a temperature? EG we lowered the constant so 20C is now 30C, thus it's "warmer" (even though functionally the molecules have the same average energy, so nothing actually changed). Or is there more to it than that? 172.68.54.139 20:13, 24 September 2024 (UTC)