Talk:1285: Third Way

I just realized that there's a line break after ever sentence in this article. (Insert formating here)

One line per sentence is reminiscent of a diagrammed/formal logic argument in philosophy. It would be a much more effective convention to help people parse and interpret content and validity of e.g. political claims. 173.245.63.198 17:21, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Line break after every sentence.
Because I can.
108.162.245.7 04:41, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

ONE AFTER A PERIOD. Davidy²²[talk] 04:38, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

MY VOTE TOO!!! --Dgbrt (talk) 18:36, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

MY VOTE, TWO!!! (not really) Orazor (talk) 09:20, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

Writing plaintext, I always do two s after a sentence ending period. This is probably because I did in fact start typing on a real typewriter. In an environment where automatic formatting will take place, like a web page or wiki text, I use the newline. I have had people in this wiki collapse my multiple line forms to one of the others. (I was disappointed.) --Divad27182 (talk) 04:48, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

I prefer double spacing, but I used single spacing in writing the explanation, just to make people happy. Perhaps I should have used new lines. Concomitant (talk) 05:10, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

I'm a double-spacer too. Am I wrong? I can't break myself of the habit, I even do it in s! --Jeff (talk) 16:43, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

The 'third way' is a little underappreciated here: it divides the text into self contained logical units, and makes text processing tools (grep, diff etc.) much more usable. Proper text rendering engines (TeX, HTML, etc.) already make this assumption and group sentences accordingly. If only I realized this earlier, it would have made my thesis revisions much more easier. In fact, up to this moment, I thought I was that lone guy in the comic. EDIT: this comment in xkcd forums makes my point clear: http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=106217#p3489055 --141.101.96.11 05:42, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

As a programmer, I find nothing weird in adapting your style to language. Writing two s in HTML or TeX is useless, as they won't render as two s anyway. (While using for this purpose nonbreakable s, which would render, is a crime.) -- Hkmaly (talk) 10:48, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

It would also render incorrectly if the period was close to the end of a line. If the markup is [last word of sentence][period][nbsp][][next sentence], the last word of the first sentence could end up on the next line unnecessarily. But if it's [last word of sentence][period][][nbsp][next sentence], the next line of text would start with a , which is much worse.--Rael (talk) 15:16, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

I end my sentences with a line break, a % and another linebreak. Only after commata etc i use a single line break. Oh, and don't forget to protect the after points used in abbreviations, not as full stops, by a backslash. Most TeX increase the length of the after a full stop a bit. Bit question: Why don't double people, when using Word not just use a longer instead of a double . Noone would have the idea to indent a paragraph or substitute a tab with a series of s.108.162.242.117 03:11, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Because the does not contain a longer key.--173.245.52.188 18:13, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

I always just find and replace double with single . If formatting suffers, someone did a bad job.108.162.231.228 06:33, 1 November 2013 (UTC) Synthetica

I always just find and replace single with double . If formatting suffers, someone did a bad job.--173.245.52.188 18:13, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

So, why did double spacing after a period ever exist? It doesn't seem necessary. PheagleAdler (talk) 07:31, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Here's the standard explanation: on typewriters, each character takes up the same amount of . So a lower-case "i" takes up the same amount of as a capital "M". This is called a monospace font. When typing, if you just put a single after the end of period ending a sentence, the reader doesn't necessarily get the sense that a new sentence has started. This is particularly true if you were typing in all caps, as might be common on some types of forms or documents. Two s, however, does the job nicely. In theory, with modern proportional-width fonts, this is unnecessary. Rylon (talk) 23:36, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Here's the researched explanation: http://www.heracliteanriver.com/?p=324 So technically, an em- after a period, an en- after a comma. Or you know, whatever you want. 108.162.250.161 06:22, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

even though i learned typing on a typewriter, to this day i had never heard of the double thing. maybe it's a US only thing, like the stupid french with s BEFORE punctuation marks. Peter (talk) 07:54, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

I've always taken the double- thing as a US thing. Some editors like emacs default to it, which is really annoying. That said, as a frenchman, the " before punctuation" is normal to me and it is part of the codified typography -- and I think this is actually an important distinction to make. Is this double- vs single- something codified somehow? As a last word, I need to be nitpicky: the exact French typography rule is "a before punctuation made of two parts (namely colon, semi-colon, exclamation/question mark) and no before punctuation made of a single part (dots, commas.)" It's a very deterministic rule that is easy to apply (whether one agrees to it or not.) Ralfoide (talk) 16:40, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

This is a common question from the French and some other nationals. The answer is that English does not work that way. There is no official codified version. The most you have is small pockets of codification within an organization, such as The University of Boulder, or UPI or the US Army. If you're working in or with such an organization you should use their standard. If you try to extend any such standard to the rest of the world you are a nasty egomanical control freak who should be chopped into pieces and fed to the fishes.--173.245.52.188 18:25, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

As a german typographer I have to say I’m shocked! Two s per period? A before punctuation?! My scientific opinion: you all are completely crazy ;-) (Just kidding, but seriously, two s? In Germany, the first possibility to do that safely is your last will …) Quoti (talk) 10:34, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

The doubled s appear in my browser's tooltips. (Maybe someone should add some non breaking s to the quotation of the tooltip text?) --141.101.98.236 10:45, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

As a(n automatic) two-spacer person (just you watch, I'll use 'em here, despite it obviously not being rendered), it's just what I learnt, back in the '70s, here in the UK. I've no idea why I learnt it. However, it may stem from the same root as the 'rule' in handwriting (not biros, but nibbed pens dipped in ink... wow, I feel old, but it was at primary school) that we use a gap as big as our our (very little) little-fingers to separate sentences. I imagine differentiating full-stops (US: periods) from commas in the messy medium of ink might be a valuable visual indicator as to what a given smudge might actually be. So, anyway, double-spacing. On the other hand I should report that, "I've dropped the habit it of appropriate punctuation prior to quotes," I say, "despite being the way I learnt it." And instead I will drop "<- Commas from that sort of position," you see, "even through I'll keep the ones that are semantic pauses." You see how my standards are slipping? Anyway, good comic. We now return you to your regularly-scheduled programme. 141.101.98.214 14:44, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

I'm in the same boat this this bloke. I don't get the typewriter tie in. I seem to recall being taught to use a finger gage correct gap of whitespace to leave between the end of one sentence and the beginning of the next. This was in an American small town southern school in the early 1980s. I assume it was for readability. 108.162.236.25 16:16, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

The "third way" is used for articles on the BBC News website :-) --141.101.99.233 14:52, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Actually, they put each sentence into a paragraph of its own, which is yet different. (In HTML: <p>... .</p> vs. ... .<br />) --Das-g (talk) 16:07, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

That's what I came here to say, that the Third Way is common-place on the web today, it is the tabloid style. This headline article http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24775846 off the BBC right now only has full-stops (periods in en-US) before paragraph breaks, apart from quotations (ie what the BBC did not write). 141.101.98.229 16:11, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

The BBC is not the only web site to do that - and it is so annoying. 108.162.222.244 10:15, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

There's a FOURTH way! I receive a "Weekly Update from Tim Scott" HTML formatted about once a week (unsurprisingly) which, in lieu of s between words, uses a carriage return and a linefeed. This alleviates the question of how many s between sentences completely! It also renders as oneverylongword in my client. Ie:

Thankyouforsubscribingtomye-newsletter.

108.162.236.25 16:16, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

And a fifth: In France, they use one whitespace before and after double punctions (:;?!) but only one whitespace after single punctuation (.,). --141.101.79.25 20:15, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

I think the finger was to help kids create clear separation while developing their proficiency at penmanship. I think the 2x is a fall out from the fixed width formatting of typewriters to help assist the reader (or proof reader) with the start and end of a sentence. Double spacing has almost become OCD for me. I can't help it. Of course I also leave paragraph marks on while I type as well. I wonder if the French would require a before a double quote, "The author ponders. "

I think we could improve old school cryptography if we just used carriage returns and ignored the 'new' line. I might be able to accept and adopt the single rule if I can make my s default to twice the point size of every other character in the style. 199.27.128.186 19:00, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

FOROL DSCHO OLCRY PTOGR APHYT AKEYO URCUE FROME NIGMA DECOD ESAND ARRAN GEEVE RYTHI NGING ROUPS OFFIV EWITH OUTAN YPUNC TUAT IONAN DINAL LCAPS 141.101.98.214 01:38, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

I have my word processor set to a a gap equal to one and a half s after a sentence ends173.245.52.198 19:05, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

New paragraph (TWO line brakes) after every sentence :-) --Sten (talk) 20:36, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

I love how the explanation uses the third method. Nice touch. JRDeBo (talk) 23:29, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Does anyone think there's any significance to the sword and the spear? 108.162.208.144 23:46, 2 November 2013 (UTC)

Yes, because this is a SERIOUS ISSUE. Alpha (talk) 06:35, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

A sword has a longer blade, while a spear keeps people further away. 108.162.219.210 12:45, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

According to the [Fire Emblem weapon triangle], the 1-spacers win against the 2-spacers. Then again, I put one after each sentence. Greyson (talk) 18:25, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Picture of a cat after every full stop  !!! 173.245.51.221 (talk) (please sign your comments with ~~~~)

With all the whitespace compression and variable width fonts in modern technology switching back to 2- is as viable as switching over to localized Programmer Dvorak. 108.162.231.18 13:44, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Hey, does anyone know if there's any way to make the wiki keep two s in a row, so the title text shows up properly? Just some random derp 15:46, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

I was mildly confused about the weird phrasing of "This comic refers to the dance-off occurring ..." I already forgot my browser plugin that I've installed an hour ago. I think its great that it happened on a xkcd-related site. --141.101.92.22 12:41, 13 May 2016 (UTC)

I'm not from the US so I never actually heard about a rule with two s. From my point of view the rule is stupid, really dumb. Just let go of it! There is no reason for it. My brain starts to spasm when I hear about a rule of two s after a period. Ungh!! 162.158.86.113 (talk) (please sign your comments with ~~~~)

The 2 s used in (early) PCs and TypeWriters (and TTYs) could be caused by the too little difference between a «.» and a «,» with little fonts on CRTs (320*200px with 8*8px single letter with <16" monitors with a signal trought an RF cable, for a C64), dot-printers (like 60*75 dpi (h*v), 9*9 per character, for an Epson MX-80) and typewritten sheets (maybe with dirty sort/type)? [The examples in parentheses are for a mid-level-case, because there are worst monitors and standards than those, see previous comments] Nickh²+, 188.114.103.166 00:11, 10 November 2016 (UTC) .

Well, looks like the one-spacers will win due to the weapon triangle. After all, lances best swords. 172.68.174.64 16:54, 17 January 2019 (UTC)