Editing Talk:1144: Tags
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I literally grimaced when I saw the comic, and then I read the title text and my stomach churned, and then I saw the non-breaking space and I wanted to crawl up in a ball and die. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]]<span title="I'm an admin. I can help.">_a</span> ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 06:01, 7 December 2012 (UTC) | I literally grimaced when I saw the comic, and then I read the title text and my stomach churned, and then I saw the non-breaking space and I wanted to crawl up in a ball and die. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]]<span title="I'm an admin. I can help.">_a</span> ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 06:01, 7 December 2012 (UTC) | ||
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I'm a web developer and I didn't find this annoying, although I did roll my eyes. Then I came here to see if there was anything I missed that SHOULD annoy me. No, to annoy a web developer you have to use table tags, blink tags(not supported on most browsers for good reason, annoys anybody when it works), and have a stray !-- inside a tag where it doesn't belong. Also, use any html inside your css file. And have it where it only works in IE. [[User:Ferretwilliams|Ferretwilliams]] ([[User talk:Ferretwilliams|talk]]) 06:11, 7 December 2012 (UTC) | I'm a web developer and I didn't find this annoying, although I did roll my eyes. Then I came here to see if there was anything I missed that SHOULD annoy me. No, to annoy a web developer you have to use table tags, blink tags(not supported on most browsers for good reason, annoys anybody when it works), and have a stray !-- inside a tag where it doesn't belong. Also, use any html inside your css file. And have it where it only works in IE. [[User:Ferretwilliams|Ferretwilliams]] ([[User talk:Ferretwilliams|talk]]) 06:11, 7 December 2012 (UTC) | ||
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:You mean like comic [[859]]? | :You mean like comic [[859]]? | ||
::That's exactly what I meant... People do that to me in emails because they know it presses my buttons! [[User:DreamingDaemon|DreamingDaemon]] ([[User talk:DreamingDaemon|talk]]) 16:56, 7 December 2012 (UTC) | ::That's exactly what I meant... People do that to me in emails because they know it presses my buttons! [[User:DreamingDaemon|DreamingDaemon]] ([[User talk:DreamingDaemon|talk]]) 16:56, 7 December 2012 (UTC) | ||
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It's been a long while since I coded html (I quit about the time style sheets appeared) but I think the annoying part of <code>&nbsp;</code> is the fact that it appears as the 6 characters instead of a space, not just that it's at the end and could push the text to another line. Doesn't this typically mean that someone copied some code but didn't look carefully at the results when they pasted it into an editor? --[[User:DanB|DanB]] ([[User talk:DanB|talk]]) 14:27, 7 December 2012 (UTC) | It's been a long while since I coded html (I quit about the time style sheets appeared) but I think the annoying part of <code>&nbsp;</code> is the fact that it appears as the 6 characters instead of a space, not just that it's at the end and could push the text to another line. Doesn't this typically mean that someone copied some code but didn't look carefully at the results when they pasted it into an editor? --[[User:DanB|DanB]] ([[User talk:DanB|talk]]) 14:27, 7 December 2012 (UTC) | ||
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:::Now, to extend the metaphor into the real world, you can think of <code><div></code> as meaning "container" and <code><span></code> as meaning "effect". "Container" doesn't mean very much by itself; it's just "a thing into which you can put other things". Likewise, "effect" just means "a way in which you can change how other things look". ("Effect" isn't necessarily the best term here, but I can't think of a better one.) "Container" provides no clues as to what kind of container it is or what you might find inside; "effect" doesn't really tell you what kind of visual change you're getting. | :::Now, to extend the metaphor into the real world, you can think of <code><div></code> as meaning "container" and <code><span></code> as meaning "effect". "Container" doesn't mean very much by itself; it's just "a thing into which you can put other things". Likewise, "effect" just means "a way in which you can change how other things look". ("Effect" isn't necessarily the best term here, but I can't think of a better one.) "Container" provides no clues as to what kind of container it is or what you might find inside; "effect" doesn't really tell you what kind of visual change you're getting. | ||
− | :::Imagine, then, a Christmas tree. You can put the Christmas tree in a tree stand (<code><div class="tree-stand">Christmas tree</div></code>) or inside a big box (<code><div class="big-box">Christmas tree</div></code>), or both at once if you're feeling saucy (<code><div class="big-box"><div class="tree-stand">Christmas tree</div></div></code>). Note that the closing tag will backtrack through the code and close the first DIV it finds, so that you could put other things inside the big box too: <code><div class="big-box"><div class="tree-stand">Christmas tree</div>Christmas cookies</div></code>. Likewise, you can attach ornaments and tinsel to the tree. Since they're effects that you're adding to the tree, rather than containers into which you're putting the tree, you'd use SPAN: <code><span class="ornaments">Christmas tree | + | :::Imagine, then, a Christmas tree. You can put the Christmas tree in a tree stand (<code><div class="tree-stand">Christmas tree</div></code>) or inside a big box (<code><div class="big-box">Christmas tree</div></code>), or both at once if you're feeling saucy (<code><div class="big-box"><div class="tree-stand">Christmas tree</div></div></code>). Note that the closing tag will backtrack through the code and close the first DIV it finds, so that you could put other things inside the big box too: <code><div class="big-box"><div class="tree-stand">Christmas tree</div>Christmas cookies</div></code>. Likewise, you can attach ornaments and tinsel to the tree. Since they're effects that you're adding to the tree, rather than containers into which you're putting the tree, you'd use SPAN: <code><span class="ornaments">Christmas tree></code> and/or <code><span class="tinsel"></code>. |
− | :::You can even have a Christmas tree with ornaments on the left | + | :::You can even have a Christmas tree with ornaments on the left, tinsel on the right, in a tree stand, inside a big box, with some cookies in the box with it: |
− | :::<code><div class="big-box"> | + | :::<code><div class="big-box"> |
− | :::: | + | ::::<div class="tree-stand"> |
− | ::::: | + | :::::<span class="ornaments">Christmas</span> <span class="tinsel">tree</span> |
− | :::: | + | ::::</div> |
− | :::: | + | ::::Christmas <span class="frosting">cookies</span> |
− | ::: | + | :::</div></code> |
:::(I decided to frost half of the cookies while I was putting them in the box.) | :::(I decided to frost half of the cookies while I was putting them in the box.) | ||
:::There's an important distinction to make here, by the way: the ornaments and tinsel can't help you ''move'' or ''position'' the Christmas tree, and they don't tell you anything about where the tree is, which is why we're using SPAN for them. The big box and tree stand, on the other hand, can be used to move or position the tree, which is why we're using DIV. | :::There's an important distinction to make here, by the way: the ornaments and tinsel can't help you ''move'' or ''position'' the Christmas tree, and they don't tell you anything about where the tree is, which is why we're using SPAN for them. The big box and tree stand, on the other hand, can be used to move or position the tree, which is why we're using DIV. | ||
− | :::Meanwhile, HTML5 wants us to use <code><bigtreebox></code> | + | :::Meanwhile, HTML5 wants us to use <code><bigtreebox></code> <code><treestand></code> for the containers, and <code><ornaments></code>, <code><tinsel></code>, and <code><frosting></code> for the effects. |
:::Does that make sense? [[User:Noëlle|Noëlle]] ([[User talk:Noëlle|talk]]) 12:14, 10 December 2012 (UTC) | :::Does that make sense? [[User:Noëlle|Noëlle]] ([[User talk:Noëlle|talk]]) 12:14, 10 December 2012 (UTC) | ||
While I'm thinking about it - DIV and SPAN remain very important tags in web development, because even though they're structural and not semantic, the fact remains that there isn't going to be a pre-defined semantic tag for everything you want to do, and not every browser supports making up your own tags (even though they're supposed to). Until HTML5 is finalized (which is currently projected to happen in 2016, if I'm remembering correctly) and everybody starts supporting arbitrary tag definitions (which may be "never"), DIV and SPAN will remain useful as generic "container"/"effect" tags. [[User:Noëlle|Noëlle]] ([[User talk:Noëlle|talk]]) 12:14, 10 December 2012 (UTC) | While I'm thinking about it - DIV and SPAN remain very important tags in web development, because even though they're structural and not semantic, the fact remains that there isn't going to be a pre-defined semantic tag for everything you want to do, and not every browser supports making up your own tags (even though they're supposed to). Until HTML5 is finalized (which is currently projected to happen in 2016, if I'm remembering correctly) and everybody starts supporting arbitrary tag definitions (which may be "never"), DIV and SPAN will remain useful as generic "container"/"effect" tags. [[User:Noëlle|Noëlle]] ([[User talk:Noëlle|talk]]) 12:14, 10 December 2012 (UTC) | ||
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