Editing Talk:1511: Spice Girl

Not being shouted (from without, at either cueball or his female companion) by a post-apocalyptic crowd, surely, but by Cueball (from within, at the post-apocalyptic person of whom he is currently trying to deny entry whilst possibly necessary weaponry is being loaded)... Or so I read it.  If that makes sense. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.4|141.101.99.4]] 05:43, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
:It does look like that, but the caption states "through a door". -- microslayer
::The little lines around the origin point of the speech "bubble" is usually used in XKCD to indicate that the sound is coming through the surface or offscreen (see Writers Strike (360) and Time Vulture (926)). -Pennpenn [[Special:Contributions/108.162.250.155|108.162.250.155]] 06:52, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
:::Except that I read the ''caption'' as meaning "through a door" by our Cueball, i.e. what someone like him would be shouting ''out'', plosively.  (It's "through the wall", anyway, if that's a 'through something' speech-bubble-originator-indicator (like the "THUMP"s are) rather than 'rather loudly' emphasis that I'd expect to be associated with Cueball.  They are shown differently, with the non-THUMP indicator not really having the same appearance as all the other ones otherwise mentioned.  Even in the very same panel.)  Anyway, just my POV.  Needs an Official Transcript to be sure, I suppose. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.4|141.101.99.4]] 07:12, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
::::The speak line clearly shows it is Cueball who shouts this quiz title through a door. No question is it like this, so I have corrected the transcript accordingly.--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:54, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::I disagree. It's not that clear. The marks around the end of the speech line indicate the question is being shouted from the other side of the wall, and I think - but can't be certain - that the line terminates near Cue Ball's head looks like to me like ambiguous drawing by the cartoonist. That, and the "through the door" make me think that Cue Ball is just silently holding the door shut against the rampaging hoards, who are doing all the shouting. {{unsigned ip|108.162.229.123}}
::::::I agree that it is unclear. See comic [[1493]]. Randall has used those little "blast" lines USUALLY to denote off-screen speech, but in that comic (the first example I found going backwards), he uses it directly on Cueball. That said, most uses are for sound effects or off-screen/through wall speech. I expected to find it used for "shouting", but Cueball isn't even shouting in that comic. Not sure why Randall used it. Another example is [[1393]]. I initially read this comic as Cueball speaking, otherwise Randally would have drawn the line over Cueball's head to the door, but I don't think the other interpretation is necessarily wrong. I do think the third one had to go though. Cueball shouting to Megan doesn't line up with the caption of "through the door". [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 14:28, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::::I also find it to be confusing. I first thought it was Cueball that was doing the shouting but after reading this page I now see that the little marks around the speech line are usually used when the speaker is off panel or inside of something (car or coming from PC, etc). I went looking through back comics to see if any yelling was indicated differently and found one where the character was not yelling but the speech line has the same little marks (First panel of Fundamental Forces http://xkcd.com/1489/). In that case it looks like a small mistake, but in this comic it just leaves me unsure who is speaking. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.171|108.162.221.171]] 14:39, 13 April 2015 (UTC)Agent0013
::::::: I am satisfied with the two different explanations currently being shown, given the controversy.  However, to continue to support 'my' interpretation, do note the difference between the *THUMP* origins (unidirectionally starred lines, definitely on the door) and the question's origins (splayed lines, and an origin on the surface of a wall... ''coincidentally'' in the right place to be confused with originating from Cueball's mouth?).  I'd accept that there's argument (before anyone else gives it) that because of Cueball's head being where it is one might not see the leftward-sloping asterism lines, but I don't think it's close enough to have obscured this (and could have been easily drawn to ''avoid'' such an illustration problem, as might a way to have drawn it to be unconfusingly not associated with Cueball's head at all). Tell you what, let's see if we can get it via the 3d.xkcd.com interface... ''Then'' we might know... ;) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.4|141.101.99.4]] 15:26, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
::::: I agree that it is clear it is Cueball shouting. The caption says through a door, not through a wall. The lines (different from the "through-door" lines) indicate he is shouting it with stress in his voice, through the door at a Spice Girl on the other side. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.250.187|108.162.250.187]] 23:06, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
:: [[Special:Contributions/108.162.250.155|108.162.250.155]] and [[Special:Contributions/108.162.229.123|108.162.229.123]] are correct, the shouting is coming from outside the room.  Randall/Cueball imagines he is hearing quiz titles "being shouted," he is not imagining shouting them himself. [[User:Pesthouse|Pesthouse]] ([[User talk:Pesthouse|talk]]) 11:56, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
::: Furthermore, ''"in order to make sure the one you '''let in''' is not some scary person but a merciful one"'' makes no sense because the Spice Girl in question is clearly meant to be the girl loading the gun behind the box. She's already in the room. {{unsigned ip|108.162.229.123}}
:::: Hmm, or maybe not. I thought the hair was too different from Megan's usual style, but it could be her. So now I'm about 50/50 on this one. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.229.123|108.162.229.123]] 12:28, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
::::There is no such character as Megan. Please see [[Megan]]. I quote ""Megan" does not necessarily always represent the same character from comic to comic. She is essentially the female equivalent of Cueball, representing the every-woman to his everyman.". [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.201|108.162.221.201]] 13:08, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
::::::::I agree that it is difficult to determine from the small lines where the speak comes from. I have added several changes to the explain, but kept most of it in. I still believe that it is Cueball that shouts, but I'm not 100% sure anymore. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:06, 14 April 2015 (UTC)


I don't know much about the Spice Girls, but the comic seems to be referring to two; Is there a "merciful" Spice Girl? Is there one likely to "start a war"? And is there a "war" that is specifically to do with the Spice Girls? -[[Special:Contributions/141.101.106.95|141.101.106.95]] 08:01, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
What about Camp Spice?? {{unsigned ip|173.245.50.103}}


The comic is clearly inventing new Spice Girls: the original Spice Girls didn't have a merciful one, or an evil one. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.201|108.162.221.201]] 13:10, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
:Disagree. In real life, there has not been a war started by ANY spice girl. This is clearly fantasy. It is just as likely that Randall is imagining the Spice Girls rise to power and in their newfound power, become associated with new traits (e.g. one is a merciful and one starts a war - in Cueball's fantasy scenario, there are only two spice girls left, or two who could possibly be at the door). There is no basis to assume this is a reference to invented new spice girls.
:: I also think that if Randall intended to have the quiz's answers make sense, it would have to be the latter, since the quiz won't have an "evil" or "merciful" spice. That said, given Randall's comment about needing to make the link titles less irritating, it's unlikely he would actually do the quiz. He just wants to be less annoyed while skimming his, Facebook feed (for example) [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 14:33, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
::You are wrong when you say 'the quiz won't have an "evil" or "merciful" spice'. [http://www.kidspot.com.au/the-spice-girls-and-10-other-mummy-types-you-might-know/ Here] you can see Baby Mummy, Sporty Mummy, Scary Mummy, Posh Mummy, Ginger Mummy, and also Old Mummy, Oracle Mummy, Supercalifragalistic Mummy, Drop and Run Mummy, Hover Mummy, Boring Mummy, Disaster Zone Mummy, and Baby Factory Mummy. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.201|108.162.221.201]] 17:15, 13 April 2015 (UTC)


Why are we all ignoring the fact that this is not just this quiz title? It extends to things like "Which Harry Potter Character are you?" and other stuff like that. [[User:YourLifeisaLie|The Goyim speaks]] ([[User talk:YourLifeisaLie|talk]]) 00:15, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
:Because the comics name is Spice Girl!--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 08:06, 14 April 2015 (UTC)


That's some [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Waste_Land Waste Land] level shit of complexity right there. [[User:Boerder|Boerder]] ([[User talk:Boerder|talk]])

The discussion has convinced me my initial interpretation is wrong, but I still like it best: Cueball is shouting, in a panic, at Megan Spice, who he thought was innocent until those at the door came for her. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.50.108|173.245.50.108]] 16:40, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

The whole idea that the shout is coming from Cueball is nonsense, utter nonsense. Megan is loading her shotgun, and saying "Haha, you'll see!" So Megan is the merciful spice girl or the one who started the war. The shouted question "Which spice girl are you?" is directed at Megan. And Randall is saying that he likes to imagine questions like this as being shouted through a door. Cueball and Megan are on the same side of the door. Ergo the shout is coming from outside. --[[User:RenniePet|RenniePet]] ([[User talk:RenniePet|talk]]) 18:58, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

;Known Comics Iconography for Outside
Everyone who thinks it's Cueball should read "Understanding Comics" by Scott McCloud. The radiating lines at the start of the stem (for both the THUMPs and the shouting) indicate that the sound is coming from off-panel. Randall has used this technique before, in [[1154]] for example. See also "Emanating Dialogue" at http://www.blambot.com/grammar.shtml - [[User:Frankie|Frankie]] ([[User talk:Frankie|talk]]) 21:32, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
;Known Comics Iconography for Shouting
:It is common for Randall to indicate shouting (and all agree that this line is shouted) with the same type of radiating lines. See when Megan shouts in [[1374: Urn]] and in [[1360: Old Files]]. There is actually a clear difference between the Thumps line and the speech line. So this is no argument. Also the "wall" is not off-screen and thus comic [[1154]] or the other referened in the explanation has nothing to do with this comics speech line. And as the comment below notes, when something is coming out of a box/wall then the "thumps" version is used as can be seen in [[915: Connoisseur]]. So once again we are back to square one. Randall has not made a clear comic here!--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 11:21, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
::As an evidence-based person, I thank you for the disappointing counter-examples. Yes, Randall has used this symbol ambiguously. However, in standard comicsography, small radiating lines at the base of a speech stem (henceforth called SRL@BOSS) is a known and accepted convention for an occluded speaker. When radiating lines are used to indicate emphasis (which is already rare, since volume is usually demonstrated via thicker lines and other symbols) the lines are typically larger and encompass a substantial fraction of the speaker's head.
:: TL;DR version: Randall might be ''doing it wrong''. - [[User:Frankie|Frankie]] ([[User talk:Frankie|talk]]) 21:33, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
:: p.s. It's certainly his right as an artist to do so. The confusion might even be intentional. {{unsigned|Frankie}}
::The comment below is not about "thumps," it is about how we are a bunch of people locked in a box arguing about something stupid. [[User:Pesthouse|Pesthouse]] ([[User talk:Pesthouse|talk]]) 00:07, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

I think I just realized what [[915: Connoisseur]] is really about. [[User:Pesthouse|Pesthouse]] ([[User talk:Pesthouse|talk]]) 01:45, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

;Is "Duck Soup" the answer to "Anyone who can pinpoint a specific work with this scene in it?"

Regarding the incomplete tag that asks "Anyone who can pinpoint a specific work with this scene in it?":

It vaguely remains me of a scene in the Marx Brothers movie "Duck Soup" but I haven't seen it in many years.  Anyone who has copy of the movie (or remembers it well) and can verify this?

[[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.189|108.162.215.189]] 06:49, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

I've been leaning more towards "The shout comes from Cueball". But the officcial transscript now clearly states, that the shout is coming from "A cruel interloper, external to the scene". [[Special:Contributions/108.162.254.104|108.162.254.104]]
@@ Line 37: / Line 37: @@
 ;Known Comics Iconography for Outside
-Everyone who thinks it's Cueball should read "Understanding Comics" by Scott McCloud. The radiating lines at the start of the stem (for both the THUMPs and the shouting) indicate that the sound is coming from off-panel. Randall has used this technique before, in [[1154]] for example. See also "Emanating Dialogue" at http://blambot.com/articles_grammar.shtml - [[User:Frankie|Frankie]] ([[User talk:Frankie|talk]]) 21:32, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
+Everyone who thinks it's Cueball should read "Understanding Comics" by Scott McCloud. The radiating lines at the start of the stem (for both the THUMPs and the shouting) indicate that the sound is coming from off-panel. Randall has used this technique before, in [[1154]] for example. See also "Emanating Dialogue" at http://www.blambot.com/grammar.shtml - [[User:Frankie|Frankie]] ([[User talk:Frankie|talk]]) 21:32, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
 ;Known Comics Iconography for Shouting
 :It is common for Randall to indicate shouting (and all agree that this line is shouted) with the same type of radiating lines. See when Megan shouts in [[1374: Urn]] and in [[1360: Old Files]]. There is actually a clear difference between the Thumps line and the speech line. So this is no argument. Also the "wall" is not off-screen and thus comic [[1154]] or the other referened in the explanation has nothing to do with this comics speech line. And as the comment below notes, when something is coming out of a box/wall then the "thumps" version is used as can be seen in [[915: Connoisseur]]. So once again we are back to square one. Randall has not made a clear comic here!--[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 11:21, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
@@ Line 56: / Line 56: @@
 I've been leaning more towards "The shout comes from Cueball". But the officcial transscript now clearly states, that the shout is coming from "A cruel interloper, external to the scene". [[Special:Contributions/108.162.254.104|108.162.254.104]]
-:I agree with the official transcript. Does anyone else think we should keep the other explanation now? (Although, without the transcript, I would be pretty on the fence about it.) [[User:Zman9600|Zman9600]] ([[User talk:Zman9600|talk]]) 00:53, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
-:It's a bit late but I disagree. The official transscript refers to cueball as a terrified figure, and after the bit about the cruel interloper it says: "Terrified figure: WHICH SPICE GIRL ARE YOU?! (...)" - which clearly makes the terrified figure, cueball, the one shouting the question. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.93.219|162.158.93.219]] 08:12, 27 July 2018 (UTC)
-Oddly enough, my interpretation is that the girl is a Spice girl, and Cueball entered a known Spice Girl residence in order to escape the hostile entities outside (I watch/read a bit of post-apocalyptic zombie fiction, where it is a common scenario to choose between seeking refuge with a "dangerous" person or contending with a zombie horde).{{unsigned|Username}}
-Not believing that no one said it, it needs to be said.  Phyllis Diller once claimed that she was the lost Spice Girl - Old Spice. [[User:Cosumel|Cosumel]] ([[User talk:Cosumel|talk]]) 03:01, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
-Anyone else think "The Merciful One could be a reference to the song with the same name by Zohar, another British music ensemble." is just a coincidence? [[User:Danish|Danish]] ([[User talk:Danish|talk]]) 19:28, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
-Note for an editor who thinks they know what to do about it: The [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1511:_Spice_Girl#Two_interpretations links inserted into the Transcript] no longer have the named anchor to jump to in the Explanation (haven't tried to work out when it got changed/merged out of existence)... [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.61|172.70.90.61]] 23:07, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
-Regarding the [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1511:_Spice_Girl&diff=296169&oldid=294892 edit] of "Latest revision as of 06:23, 7 October 2022 // 172.70.242.171 // (→‎The internet quiz: Updated the bit about who screams the lines. It is indeed cueball, not the interloper, as per official transcript)"... I can't work out the edit reasoning. "It is indeed Cueball (IMO), not the interloper (even if that is as per official transcript)" or "It is indeed Cueball (not the interloper), as the official transcript (apparently) confirms"? This does involve some personal opinion, in either case, but I haven't checked the official transcript (just the explainxkcd one, which has unfulfilled link-anchors, still, as mentioned above) to see if it has changed since I originally read it during the original arguments over whether it was from Cueball's mouth or through the wall. (To me, it remains ''looking'' like it is coming through the wall, but let us not flog that particular deceased equine again.) [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.187|172.71.178.187]] 11:01, 7 October 2022 (UTC)
-:Sorry for writing such an unclear edit reason, but when looking at the edit itself it should be clear that I meant "it's indeed Cueball who shouts the line, because that's what the official transcript says". [[Special:Contributions/198.41.242.167|198.41.242.167]] 21:34, 23 December 2022 (UTC)