Editing Talk:1534: Beer
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:: Like of beer is actually a really bad example of acquired taste. I was stealing sips of beer from my dad at age 3-4, if he had an unattended open beer. Liking of beer is primarily generics, and secondary acquired taste. Now talk about {{w|Marmite}} and discuss acquired taste. [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 16:21, 5 June 2015 (UTC) | :: Like of beer is actually a really bad example of acquired taste. I was stealing sips of beer from my dad at age 3-4, if he had an unattended open beer. Liking of beer is primarily generics, and secondary acquired taste. Now talk about {{w|Marmite}} and discuss acquired taste. [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 16:21, 5 June 2015 (UTC) | ||
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:::And you, sir, are a canonical example of an ''outlier''. π Seriously though, go to http://google.com and type "is an acquired taste". Google's very first autocomplete suggestion is beer. I'm not saying it's necessarily a ''good'' example, but it is about as canonical as you can get. - [[User:Frankie|Frankie]] ([[User talk:Frankie|talk]]) 03:09, 6 June 2015 (UTC) | :::And you, sir, are a canonical example of an ''outlier''. π Seriously though, go to http://google.com and type "is an acquired taste". Google's very first autocomplete suggestion is beer. I'm not saying it's necessarily a ''good'' example, but it is about as canonical as you can get. - [[User:Frankie|Frankie]] ([[User talk:Frankie|talk]]) 03:09, 6 June 2015 (UTC) | ||
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:: ''...people are too eager to engage in deeper analysis than he content can support...'' - Isn't overanalyzing every minute detail the entire point of this wiki? Of course the explanations should be concise, but that doesn't apply to the wild mass guessing happening in the discussion. - [[Special:Contributions/108.162.254.96|108.162.254.96]] 14:25, 9 June 2015 (UTC) | :: ''...people are too eager to engage in deeper analysis than he content can support...'' - Isn't overanalyzing every minute detail the entire point of this wiki? Of course the explanations should be concise, but that doesn't apply to the wild mass guessing happening in the discussion. - [[Special:Contributions/108.162.254.96|108.162.254.96]] 14:25, 9 June 2015 (UTC) | ||
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Speaking from personal experience, I've never tried any form of alcohol that I've liked. And if you must know my experience is mainly centered around beer that's highly recommended by friends and family. The last case was at a tour of a local microbrewery that seems to be doing extremely well. I'm sure if I pulled a large scale taste test I'd aquire enough of a taste to delude myself into thinking that something or other is actually worth drinking but I don't see why I should go through the effort just to conform to a social norm. --not the mama[[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.180|108.162.238.180]] 14:30, 5 June 2015 (UTC) | Speaking from personal experience, I've never tried any form of alcohol that I've liked. And if you must know my experience is mainly centered around beer that's highly recommended by friends and family. The last case was at a tour of a local microbrewery that seems to be doing extremely well. I'm sure if I pulled a large scale taste test I'd aquire enough of a taste to delude myself into thinking that something or other is actually worth drinking but I don't see why I should go through the effort just to conform to a social norm. --not the mama[[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.180|108.162.238.180]] 14:30, 5 June 2015 (UTC) | ||
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::I'm 1/16th northern European (Dutch), 1/4th southern European, Native American too. Guess I didn't get the North Europe beer gene. Why'd the even northerner Europeans like the Russians and Scottish become distilled spirit drinkers? Did their beer freeze too easily so they made vodka and whiskey? If this is why the north developed a beer culture then why'd Egyptians and Mesopotamians drink beer? It's very hot there. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.59|108.162.215.59]] 20:08, 5 June 2015 (UTC) | ::I'm 1/16th northern European (Dutch), 1/4th southern European, Native American too. Guess I didn't get the North Europe beer gene. Why'd the even northerner Europeans like the Russians and Scottish become distilled spirit drinkers? Did their beer freeze too easily so they made vodka and whiskey? If this is why the north developed a beer culture then why'd Egyptians and Mesopotamians drink beer? It's very hot there. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.59|108.162.215.59]] 20:08, 5 June 2015 (UTC) | ||
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::: (1) "predominantly" and "exclusively" are to different words; they are also brewing wine in England. (2) Distilled alcohol for mass consumption is relatively new (~500 years), before that the process was known but not used for this purpose. (3) Many Europeans drink tea these days -- culture and fashion travels. [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 00:55, 8 June 2015 (UTC) | ::: (1) "predominantly" and "exclusively" are to different words; they are also brewing wine in England. (2) Distilled alcohol for mass consumption is relatively new (~500 years), before that the process was known but not used for this purpose. (3) Many Europeans drink tea these days -- culture and fashion travels. [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 00:55, 8 June 2015 (UTC) | ||
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Agreed. Major brands suck, but probably in most countries, even Germany, where people usually have very high opinion about German beer. There are thousands of small breweries, though, some with a very old tradition (like in monasteries), and many just popping up recently. At some microbreweries you have to order weeks in advance, but the brew you get is really exceptional, and you'll drink it at room temperature from wine glasses. Absolutely not meant for getting drunk. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.254.107|108.162.254.107]] 10:47, 5 June 2015 (UTC) | Agreed. Major brands suck, but probably in most countries, even Germany, where people usually have very high opinion about German beer. There are thousands of small breweries, though, some with a very old tradition (like in monasteries), and many just popping up recently. At some microbreweries you have to order weeks in advance, but the brew you get is really exceptional, and you'll drink it at room temperature from wine glasses. Absolutely not meant for getting drunk. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.254.107|108.162.254.107]] 10:47, 5 June 2015 (UTC) | ||
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I actively dislike the taste of every beer that I have tried. That includes Guiness on tap in Dublin. I sort of got into trouble for it the few days I was there agus ag labhairt na Gaeilge. But this discussion is one of the most amusing and enjoyable arguments I have seen yet on this website. Go ahead on, folks! [[User:Taibhse|Taibhse]] ([[User talk:Taibhse|talk]]) 03:48, 6 June 2015 (UTC) | I actively dislike the taste of every beer that I have tried. That includes Guiness on tap in Dublin. I sort of got into trouble for it the few days I was there agus ag labhairt na Gaeilge. But this discussion is one of the most amusing and enjoyable arguments I have seen yet on this website. Go ahead on, folks! [[User:Taibhse|Taibhse]] ([[User talk:Taibhse|talk]]) 03:48, 6 June 2015 (UTC) | ||
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I've been scratching my head over this one since I saw it come out, and I still can't tell what Randall is trying to say. Are we meant to take it at face value, where Cueball is right on and Hairy is simply unwilling to admit that deep down he (just like apparently every other beer drinker everywhere) dislikes beer, and everyone is pretending because of social pressure? Or is this a subversion of the expected, and meant as a dig at the kind of person who would so arrogantly think that their personal dislike of something popular simply means everyone who claims to like it is pretending to do so out of social pressures or internalized expectations (no pun intended)? In this comic, Cueball comes across to me as kind of a passive-aggressive jerk (which is normally Hairy's role) as he openly derides something that someone else may genuinely enjoy by claiming everyone is pretending, and when reminded that it's fine for him to not drink it, he responds with bitter sarcasm. So who's the butt of the joke here? Hairy because he can't see that he's only doing something from social pressure? Or Cueball for assuming that Hairy (as well as the other millions of people who regularly enjoy beer around the world) is only doing something and pretending to like it because of social pressure. | I've been scratching my head over this one since I saw it come out, and I still can't tell what Randall is trying to say. Are we meant to take it at face value, where Cueball is right on and Hairy is simply unwilling to admit that deep down he (just like apparently every other beer drinker everywhere) dislikes beer, and everyone is pretending because of social pressure? Or is this a subversion of the expected, and meant as a dig at the kind of person who would so arrogantly think that their personal dislike of something popular simply means everyone who claims to like it is pretending to do so out of social pressures or internalized expectations (no pun intended)? In this comic, Cueball comes across to me as kind of a passive-aggressive jerk (which is normally Hairy's role) as he openly derides something that someone else may genuinely enjoy by claiming everyone is pretending, and when reminded that it's fine for him to not drink it, he responds with bitter sarcasm. So who's the butt of the joke here? Hairy because he can't see that he's only doing something from social pressure? Or Cueball for assuming that Hairy (as well as the other millions of people who regularly enjoy beer around the world) is only doing something and pretending to like it because of social pressure. | ||
[[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.118|173.245.52.118]] 06:20, 8 June 2015 (UTC) | [[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.118|173.245.52.118]] 06:20, 8 June 2015 (UTC) | ||
β | + | +1 above comment. I'm on the side of the second interpretation, but my (possibly prejudiced guess) is that Randall may dislike beer! | |
β | + | [[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.186|108.162.238.186]] 13:00, 8 June 2015 (UTC) | |
β | + | :Maybe both interpretations are valid, and this helps us see the problem of empathy here. The same way cueball can't be objectively sure about hairy faking it or not, we can't be absolutely sure about it either, not knowing if cueball is exposing harsh truths or being an unempathetic jerk. Our interpretation will be based on our own biases on the subject.[[Special:Contributions/188.114.99.29|188.114.99.29]] 13:28, 8 June 2015 (UTC) | |
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I think this is a wildly fascinating conversation! First, it's interesting we all care so much about a beverage. Clearly, we view our own preference for beer as much more than a taste, but rather a statement of identity. Second, the popularity of objectively terrible and tasteless beers (originally from the US, but now mindlessly copied by practically every country on the planet) shows that it '''is''' possible that we beer lovers are deluding ourselves (and also that beer-avoiders are deluding themselves as well). The identity statement of preferring or avoiding beer may be so strong that we may not really know if we like beer or not. | I think this is a wildly fascinating conversation! First, it's interesting we all care so much about a beverage. Clearly, we view our own preference for beer as much more than a taste, but rather a statement of identity. Second, the popularity of objectively terrible and tasteless beers (originally from the US, but now mindlessly copied by practically every country on the planet) shows that it '''is''' possible that we beer lovers are deluding ourselves (and also that beer-avoiders are deluding themselves as well). The identity statement of preferring or avoiding beer may be so strong that we may not really know if we like beer or not. | ||
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::::: Less social inhibitions to talk to people. A high social skill is in any definition I've seen important to EQ... Not easy if you're afraid to talk to people. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.53.147|173.245.53.147]] 07:49, 11 June 2015 (UTC) | ::::: Less social inhibitions to talk to people. A high social skill is in any definition I've seen important to EQ... Not easy if you're afraid to talk to people. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.53.147|173.245.53.147]] 07:49, 11 June 2015 (UTC) | ||
β | :::::: Ah, you see you're trying to mix up social skills, extroversion, empathy, the autism spectrum (from Kim Kardashian to someone who can't learn language, emotion reading ability and I don't know, not being an unfeeling person when we've already determined the traits with the most informative power and non-imaginaryness (compare clutch batting) which is the big 5 and IQ. If you have 120 EQ and 80 IQ you might not be able to get a job. One that's any good anyway. You'd be the loser that does manual labor and goes to Insane Clown Posse concerts and might live in a trailer park. You'd make a good prostitute if you're uninhibited enough, though. If you have 120 IQ and 80 EQ you'd be as smart as many lawyers and could easily get a job writing software or something and own a home. Which do you think is more useful? And some woman will marry you because she's lazy and doesn't like work or something. And a person that's hard working with 120 EQ can compensate enough with EQ and connections to be a rich executive or lawyer but a person of mundane work ethic with 140 IQ and low EQ could be any kind of doctorate he wants and has a good chance of making $200K+. That's because high IQ people will always enjoy something and find it easy even if they're otherwise lazy. What do you think is more useful? Would hard work and stupidity and mundane social skills get you $200+K/year? Would great social skills, stupidity, and mundane work ethic get you $200+K/year? Face it, social skills are common as dirt and will get you jack shit wages if the social person is not unusual in also being able to stand books enough to get a masters degree or is really, really sexy or unrealistically extreme goodness at something (model, prostitute, porn star, singing | + | :::::: Ah, you see you're trying to mix up social skills, extroversion, empathy, the autism spectrum (from Kim Kardashian to someone who can't learn language, emotion reading ability and I don't know, not being an unfeeling person when we've already determined the traits with the most informative power and non-imaginaryness (compare clutch batting) which is the big 5 and IQ. If you have 120 EQ and 80 IQ you might not be able to get a job. One that's any good anyway. You'd be the loser that does manual labor and goes to Insane Clown Posse concerts and might live in a trailer park. You'd make a good prostitute if you're uninhibited enough, though. If you have 120 IQ and 80 EQ you'd be as smart as many lawyers and could easily get a job writing software or something and own a home. Which do you think is more useful? And some woman will marry you because she's lazy and doesn't like work or something. And a person that's hard working with 120 EQ can compensate enough with EQ and connections to be a rich executive or lawyer but a person of mundane work ethic with 140 IQ and low EQ could be any kind of doctorate he wants and has a good chance of making $200K+. That's because high IQ people will always enjoy something and find it easy even if they're otherwise lazy. What do you think is more useful? Would hard work and stupidity and mundane social skills get you $200+K/year? Would great social skills, stupidity, and mundane work ethic get you $200+K/year? Face it, social skills are common as dirt and will get you jack shit wages if the social person is not unusual in also being able to stand books enough to get a masters degree or is really, really sexy or unrealistically extreme goodness at something (model, prostitute, porn star, singing, sports). Frankly, even in sports you don't need the social skills, only if you're almost too bad to get on a professional team. IQ is the only one of the three that you can be mundane in the other two and and still make millions (even diplomats can't be stupid). That's why they pay some people with high EQ so much, it's hard to find one with IQ much above average. Gifted social-er than average children are 1 in 4 (of the gifted children). [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.94|108.162.215.94]] 14:53, 11 June 2015 (UTC) |
:::::: Okay, some people have social anxiety but others just don't feel like talking that moment. We're self-reliant. We don't need a whole web of connections with connected people because we write good software (or design planes well or..). That is a natural urge I think, it's called reserved. Men don't want to ask for directions. Men don't want to ask where X is. As long as the things that come out of your mouth are interesting or helpful I don't see why you must talk before you have something good or adds anything at all. You can help social anxiety. But you can't cure stupid. I totally agree that empathy for your lover, kids and close family and some for the rest of humanity and ability to feel is good to have but you're conflating this with extroversion. Traits shouldn't have little correlation between their subtraits, that's why we have the big 5. It's also good to not be handiness clueless and poor at math, have no common sense, and be too dim to learn to set a VCR clock. When I see social people I think of people that can't stand to be alone and converse with volleyballs from day 1 (rent Cast-Away), only have an astrology book in their house, can't know it's 6 cans in two triangles without counting (every one!) and counted out loud from the *first* Saturday when they need to know how many days Saturday to Wednesday in a week and a half is (11). I actually saw the last three and could tell the the first and last ones' EQ was through the roof. If EQ was a car the last group would make a sonic boom. But the last group was just nurses, the first person moved *into* a ghetto cause $600 a month in roommate rent became not enough to pay for their entertainment "needs", big TV, and useless crap which covers the wall. The woman who used her finger to count two triangles of cans out loud scans supermarket goods for a living. I have a cousin who got a bachelor's in chemistry from a semi-third world country through high conscientiousness, was allowed to try for a U.S. degree since 1986, is socialer than average, and cleaned strangers' clothes for a living for 2 decades. Boxers, panties, socks, anything that goes in the laundromat's let the employee do your laundry for you counter. He's lived in the US 43 years, just retired, will be a miser till death (never had kids to save money?), stole any gold chains or cash in the clothes and said someone else must've did it (I'm serious) yet only has about $100K gross worth (and net, too). Also cleaned out cupfuls of lint. I don't need more EQ than is needed to get by. | :::::: Okay, some people have social anxiety but others just don't feel like talking that moment. We're self-reliant. We don't need a whole web of connections with connected people because we write good software (or design planes well or..). That is a natural urge I think, it's called reserved. Men don't want to ask for directions. Men don't want to ask where X is. As long as the things that come out of your mouth are interesting or helpful I don't see why you must talk before you have something good or adds anything at all. You can help social anxiety. But you can't cure stupid. I totally agree that empathy for your lover, kids and close family and some for the rest of humanity and ability to feel is good to have but you're conflating this with extroversion. Traits shouldn't have little correlation between their subtraits, that's why we have the big 5. It's also good to not be handiness clueless and poor at math, have no common sense, and be too dim to learn to set a VCR clock. When I see social people I think of people that can't stand to be alone and converse with volleyballs from day 1 (rent Cast-Away), only have an astrology book in their house, can't know it's 6 cans in two triangles without counting (every one!) and counted out loud from the *first* Saturday when they need to know how many days Saturday to Wednesday in a week and a half is (11). I actually saw the last three and could tell the the first and last ones' EQ was through the roof. If EQ was a car the last group would make a sonic boom. But the last group was just nurses, the first person moved *into* a ghetto cause $600 a month in roommate rent became not enough to pay for their entertainment "needs", big TV, and useless crap which covers the wall. The woman who used her finger to count two triangles of cans out loud scans supermarket goods for a living. I have a cousin who got a bachelor's in chemistry from a semi-third world country through high conscientiousness, was allowed to try for a U.S. degree since 1986, is socialer than average, and cleaned strangers' clothes for a living for 2 decades. Boxers, panties, socks, anything that goes in the laundromat's let the employee do your laundry for you counter. He's lived in the US 43 years, just retired, will be a miser till death (never had kids to save money?), stole any gold chains or cash in the clothes and said someone else must've did it (I'm serious) yet only has about $100K gross worth (and net, too). Also cleaned out cupfuls of lint. I don't need more EQ than is needed to get by. | ||
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It has been a long time since a comic has created so much debate ;-) I have now changed the explanation to incorporate the two possible interpretations. Either that Cueball is right about beer or that he is just a jerk about other peoples pleasures, that he do not share. Feel free to improve. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:45, 11 June 2015 (UTC) | It has been a long time since a comic has created so much debate ;-) I have now changed the explanation to incorporate the two possible interpretations. Either that Cueball is right about beer or that he is just a jerk about other peoples pleasures, that he do not share. Feel free to improve. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:45, 11 June 2015 (UTC) | ||
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