Editing Talk:1724: Proofs
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Judging from my experience when I first encountered proofs in math classes (or my general experience from math classes), the teacher is going to write down a "proof" which makes absolutely no sense to students and is also never explained in a way that actually makes them understand. Instead, they are just going to use "dark magic" and write what seems to be completely senseless to students. | Judging from my experience when I first encountered proofs in math classes (or my general experience from math classes), the teacher is going to write down a "proof" which makes absolutely no sense to students and is also never explained in a way that actually makes them understand. Instead, they are just going to use "dark magic" and write what seems to be completely senseless to students. | ||
[[Special:Contributions/141.101.91.223|141.101.91.223]] 04:24, 24 August 2016 (UTC) | [[Special:Contributions/141.101.91.223|141.101.91.223]] 04:24, 24 August 2016 (UTC) | ||
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Transcript generated by the BOT was murdering me, had to change it. Proposing miss Lenhart is party 1. [[User:EppOch|EppOch]] ([[User talk:EppOch|talk]]) 04:45, 24 August 2016 (UTC) | Transcript generated by the BOT was murdering me, had to change it. Proposing miss Lenhart is party 1. [[User:EppOch|EppOch]] ([[User talk:EppOch|talk]]) 04:45, 24 August 2016 (UTC) | ||
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:: Me to, but I am on mobile, so editing is a pain [[Special:Contributions/162.158.86.71|162.158.86.71]] 06:51, 24 August 2016 (UTC) | :: Me to, but I am on mobile, so editing is a pain [[Special:Contributions/162.158.86.71|162.158.86.71]] 06:51, 24 August 2016 (UTC) | ||
:: Done [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 08:26, 24 August 2016 (UTC) | :: Done [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 08:26, 24 August 2016 (UTC) | ||
− | :::Note that the BOT doesn't create any text - [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1724:_Proofs&oldid=125654 see here]. The transcript was made by several people. Agree completely that this is Miss Lenhart, but even if it was not "[http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1724:_Proofs&direction=next&oldid=125660 party 1 and party 2]" is not the way to describe a woman with long blonde hair and Cueball ;-) There is at the moment [[explain_xkcd:Community_portal/Proposals#New_character_category_for_blonde_woman_news_reporter_.28from_1699.29|a discussion]] what to call other women looking like this (i.e. those that are not clearly Miss Lenhart, [[Mrs. Roberts]] or her daughter [[ | + | :::Note that the BOT doesn't create any text - [http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1724:_Proofs&oldid=125654 see here]. The transcript was made by several people. Agree completely that this is Miss Lenhart, but even if it was not "[http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1724:_Proofs&direction=next&oldid=125660 party 1 and party 2]" is not the way to describe a woman with long blonde hair and Cueball ;-) There is at the moment [[explain_xkcd:Community_portal/Proposals#New_character_category_for_blonde_woman_news_reporter_.28from_1699.29|a discussion]] what to call other women looking like this (i.e. those that are not clearly Miss Lenhart, [[Mrs. Roberts]] or her daughter [[Elaine Roberts]]). Chip in there if you have any opinions on that regard... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 11:01, 24 August 2016 (UTC) |
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It seems pretty obvious to me that by "weird, dark magic proofs", the student is talking about proofs that drag in far-flung reaches of mathematics so distant that they no longer appear to be mathematics, especially ones that involve meta-reasoning. Gödel's proof of the incompleteness of Peano arithmetic is the archetypical example, but others include Lob's theorem and any proof by contradiction involving the halting problem. Ms Lenhart's proof starts out by setting up a proof-by-contradiction, already a warning sign, and she then escalates it at the end by implying that this proof will somehow involve the actual physics of where the solution can and cannot be written. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.241.123|108.162.241.123]] 17:27, 24 August 2016 (UTC) | It seems pretty obvious to me that by "weird, dark magic proofs", the student is talking about proofs that drag in far-flung reaches of mathematics so distant that they no longer appear to be mathematics, especially ones that involve meta-reasoning. Gödel's proof of the incompleteness of Peano arithmetic is the archetypical example, but others include Lob's theorem and any proof by contradiction involving the halting problem. Ms Lenhart's proof starts out by setting up a proof-by-contradiction, already a warning sign, and she then escalates it at the end by implying that this proof will somehow involve the actual physics of where the solution can and cannot be written. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.241.123|108.162.241.123]] 17:27, 24 August 2016 (UTC) | ||
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"''In the title text the decision of whether to take the axiom of choice is made by a deterministic process. The axiom of determinacy is incompatible with the axiom of choice...''" The axiom of determinacy is not really relevant to deterministic processes - it is about (certain types of two-players-) games and says that any such game is determined (that is, some player has a winning strategy). So this axiom is not relevant to the title text --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.83.66|162.158.83.66]] 17:39, 24 August 2016 (UTC) | "''In the title text the decision of whether to take the axiom of choice is made by a deterministic process. The axiom of determinacy is incompatible with the axiom of choice...''" The axiom of determinacy is not really relevant to deterministic processes - it is about (certain types of two-players-) games and says that any such game is determined (that is, some player has a winning strategy). So this axiom is not relevant to the title text --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.83.66|162.158.83.66]] 17:39, 24 August 2016 (UTC) | ||
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