Editing Talk:1735: Fashion Police and Grammar Police

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I added a basic explanation to this comic. I also changed the incomplete to say "Needs more on the explanation". Maybe you guys can help connect the dots and extend the explanation? --[[User:JayRulesXKCD|JayRulesXKCD]] ([[User talk:JayRulesXKCD|talk]]) 14:45, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

It should be noted that he uses literally wrong, just to anger the grammar police he's mocking, it's a nice touch.[[User:Trives|Trives]] ([[User talk:Trives|talk]]) 14:59, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

In my eyes the 2 groups are not standing together in this comic. --[[User:DaB.|DaB.]] ([[User talk:DaB.|talk]]) 15:12, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
: Yeah I'd have said they were just being presented graphically, the intention isn't to display them as protesting alongside each other. [[User:Xseo|Xseo]] ([[User talk:Xseo|talk]]) 15:31, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Is there an extra joke in the Title Text, "* Mad about jorts"? If it's something which both Grammar Police and Fashion Police would find distasteful, it would add an extra layer to the assertion that they are the same people. {{unsigned ip|172.68.35.71}}
:Yes for sure and this is now in the explanation. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:27, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Incidentally, I find it ironic and probably unintentional that the Title Text demonstrates the importance of grammar and undermines Randall's own assertions that Grammar Police are superfluous and annoying. Is he saying that he really likes jorts, or is he saying that he is really angered by them? If only there was some formal ruleset which allowed meaning to be more effectively conveyed, rather than being a system of glorious chaos... https://xkcd.com/1576/ {{unsigned ip|172.68.35.71}}
:I think the comment above is inaccurate: "Title Text demonstrates the importance of grammar and undermines Randall's own assertions that Grammar Police are superfluous and annoying". The "*" represents a bullet point so it is clear that "* Mad about jorts" is an additional bullet point that both groups would find offensive. The irony now is that I'm not familiar with how to structure my wiki comments. ~~dizzydan~~ {{unsigned ip|108.162.221.103}}
::Yes very intentionally and thanks for pointing out it is an extra bullet point ;-) That is why the grammar police would hate that sentence where the other police just hate jorts. And would be mad if they realized it could be understood like they loved jorts. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:27, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

Technically, the grammar police wouldn't care about jorts, since that is a spelling error, not a grammatical error. Please contact the spelling police.<br>Sincerely,
:The Semantics Police {{unsigned ip|108.162.237.216}}
::Jorts is not a spelling error it is a real term used on Wikipedia and now linked in the explanation. They are mad about the use of "mad about". Because in this case it can be misunderstood as either really loving jorts or being upset about jorts. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:27, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

'''Judgemental''' A spelling of the word 'judgmental,' infrequently used in the UK (which is widely regarded to be more fashionable than the US)?<br>
'''Deeply Arbitrary''' Internally inconsistent? Arbitrary means based on random chance or whim and as such cannot be strong or deep?<br>
'''Appreciate . . . are . . . is ''' Subject/verb disagreement with a plural/singular shift?<br>
'''Cool and casual''' vague use of an indefinite pronoun & a 'cool and casual' fashion choice is likely entails a significant amount of work, meaning it is not casual at all.--[[User:GotWilLeibniz|GotWilLeibniz]] ([[User talk:GotWilLeibniz|talk]]) 18:43, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

"Fashion Police and Grammar Police and ExplainXKCD Contributors" {{unsigned ip|108.162.219.69}}
:True ;-) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:27, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

:Ah yes, of course. The implied "they" is grammatically third-person plural, the "you" is second-person singular (using the same rules as third-person plural for verb agreement), and the "way" is singular. Obviously, this means there is a subject/verb disagreement... somehow. [[User:ISaveXKCDpapers|ISaveXKCDpapers]] ([[User talk:ISaveXKCDpapers|talk]]) 01:58, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Just dropping a couple links here re: the "uncomfortably transparent proxies for race and class" in language. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.214.227|162.158.214.227]] 21:20, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
http://wordtree.com/what-the-victorians-did-to-english-grammar/
http://www.languagejones.com/blog-1/2014/6/8/what-is-aave

Por simpliĝi gramatikon, nur lernu Esperanton! Ĝi ne havas arbitrajn regularojn. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.158|108.162.249.158]] 22:17, 19 September 2016 (UTC)

In reality, I support the grammar police. Language is a set of shared rules allowing us to understand each other. Speaking in improper grammar produces misunderstandings and throws off listeners/readers, as well as making the speaker sound incompetent. Imagine if people started piping garbage down TCP connections! Servers wouldn't understand a thing! [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.190|108.162.215.190]] 22:50, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
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-This sentence of the explanation is confusing: "Grammar police are people who are 'sticklers' to grammar rules and get mad or contradictory if someone uses non-standard grammar in a sentence."  What is meant by the grammar police getting 'contradictory' when non-standard grammar is used? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.237.140|108.162.237.140]] 19:44, 20 September 2016 (UTC)->
 I added a basic explanation to this comic. I also changed the incomplete to say "Needs more on the explanation". Maybe you guys can help connect the dots and extend the explanation? --[[User:JayRulesXKCD|JayRulesXKCD]] ([[User talk:JayRulesXKCD|talk]]) 14:45, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
 It should be noted that he uses literally wrong, just to anger the grammar police he's mocking, it's a nice touch.[[User:Trives|Trives]] ([[User talk:Trives|talk]]) 14:59, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
-: What? He's using literally because it is literally "literally." He just listed 8 traits which both sides supposedly share. The joke/comment isn't that they are practically the same; it is that they are the identical same group of people.
 In my eyes the 2 groups are not standing together in this comic. --[[User:DaB.|DaB.]] ([[User talk:DaB.|talk]]) 15:12, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
@@ Line 20: / Line 17: @@
 :The Semantics Police {{unsigned ip|108.162.237.216}}
 ::Jorts is not a spelling error it is a real term used on Wikipedia and now linked in the explanation. They are mad about the use of "mad about". Because in this case it can be misunderstood as either really loving jorts or being upset about jorts. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:27, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
-:::Then it would be "* mad about 'mad about jorts'", thus I lean for the portmanteau explanation - Sebastian --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.86.167|162.158.86.167]] 03:07, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
-::::When I first read it I just took it in the same context for both. I found it funnier to think that the "Grammar Police" are inexplicably mad at people wearing jean-shorts. [[User:Schiffy|<font color="000999">Schiffy</font>]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|<font color="FF6600">Speak to me</font>]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|<font color="FF0000">What I've done</font>]]) 14:44, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
 '''Judgemental''' A spelling of the word 'judgmental,' infrequently used in the UK (which is widely regarded to be more fashionable than the US)?<br>
@@ Line 27: / Line 22: @@
 '''Appreciate . . . are . . . is ''' Subject/verb disagreement with a plural/singular shift?<br>
 '''Cool and casual''' vague use of an indefinite pronoun & a 'cool and casual' fashion choice is likely entails a significant amount of work, meaning it is not casual at all.--[[User:GotWilLeibniz|GotWilLeibniz]] ([[User talk:GotWilLeibniz|talk]]) 18:43, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
-:Arbitrary is more 'not based on physical phenomena', and is not necessarily based on chance. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.35.80|172.68.35.80]] 06:17, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
-: 'judgment' v. 'judgement' - I was taught that the first is used as in "using one's judgment," while the latter is "the court issued a judgement."  [[User:Miamiclay|Miamiclay]] ([[User talk:Miamiclay|talk]]) 08:22, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
 "Fashion Police and Grammar Police and ExplainXKCD Contributors" {{unsigned ip|108.162.219.69}}
@@ Line 38: / Line 30: @@
 Just dropping a couple links here re: the "uncomfortably transparent proxies for race and class" in language. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.214.227|162.158.214.227]] 21:20, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
 http://wordtree.com/what-the-victorians-did-to-english-grammar/
-http://www.languagejones.com/blog-1/2014/6/8/what-is-aave {{unsigned ip|162.158.214.227}}
+http://www.languagejones.com/blog-1/2014/6/8/what-is-aave
 Por simpliĝi gramatikon, nur lernu Esperanton! Ĝi ne havas arbitrajn regularojn. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.249.158|108.162.249.158]] 22:17, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
 In reality, I support the grammar police. Language is a set of shared rules allowing us to understand each other. Speaking in improper grammar produces misunderstandings and throws off listeners/readers, as well as making the speaker sound incompetent. Imagine if people started piping garbage down TCP connections! Servers wouldn't understand a thing! [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.190|108.162.215.190]] 22:50, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
-Rich white people being in high places is not really the point. Classism is the easiest to demonstrate: the grammar police frown on non-prestige dialects, and the fashion police consider poor people's clothing to be unfashionable. Racism is harder to demonstrate simply, but with language you have AAVE being treated as just "bad English" and, to a lesser extent, fashion popular in certain races being considered bad. (See, the literal fashion police of some French towns in reaction to burkinis. [[User:Trlkly|Trlkly]] ([[User talk:Trlkly|talk]]) 03:24, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
-:Hostility to burkini in France has nothing to do with fashion police. This is not a reaction to alleged bad taste in clothing (attemps to make them more fashionable are even well received), but to other things that the French are not comfortable with: public display of rigorist religious behaviour in a strongly secular country, perceived provocation by muslims in a context of islamist terror attacks, considerations around women's liberties (burkini seen as an enslavement to men/husbands)... Or for some it's simply knee-jerk racism... [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.14|141.101.98.14]] 11:57, 20 September 2016 (UTC)
-Isn't this an example of [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duck_typing Duck Typing]? [[Special:Contributions/141.101.104.21|141.101.104.21]] 10:17, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
-Kudos to all who uses badder grammar for this explanations.[[User:Nerdman1|Nerdman1]] ([[User talk:Nerdman1|talk]]) 12:39, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
-I'm all for using words in a way that makes them more performant, regardless of the rules, or whether or not they are in the dictionary. [[User:Psu256|Psu256]] ([[User talk:Psu256|talk]]) 15:28, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
-'''Why hasn't anybody pointed out the most obvious fact?!'''
-They are called 'Grammar Nazis'!!!! {{unsigned ip|198.41.243.240}}
-: I have thought about that, but since this term doesn't show up neither in the comic nor in the title text I discarded the idea again. On the other hand, I've never heard of the term "Grammar Police" while "Grammar Nazi" is quite common to me and in Google the term "grammar nazi" has about twice as many results as "grammar police" - despite explainXKCD [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 06:49, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
-Glamour and grammar ...
-https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/glamour {{unsigned ip|108.162.237.169}}
-"...and attempts to do so send strong messages of their own" ....what? i dont understand this part. what did randall mean to say?? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.34.165|172.70.34.165]] 21:38, 15 September 2021 (UTC)Bumpf