Editing Talk:1806: Borrow Your Laptop
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:::::::Calm down. You are seeing things that are not there.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 20:58, 7 March 2017 (UTC) | :::::::Calm down. You are seeing things that are not there.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 20:58, 7 March 2017 (UTC) | ||
::::::::It sure doesn't fell that way for me personally. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:11, 7 March 2017 (UTC) | ::::::::It sure doesn't fell that way for me personally. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:11, 7 March 2017 (UTC) | ||
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;Keyboard layout | ;Keyboard layout | ||
Re: Information text "Everything is senseless -- who changes the keyboard layout without changing the keyboard itself? Typing blindly is just a guess but not shown in the comic." | Re: Information text "Everything is senseless -- who changes the keyboard layout without changing the keyboard itself? Typing blindly is just a guess but not shown in the comic." | ||
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:::::Thanks [[User:Jaalenja|Jaalenja]], I'm sure we both are not the only one who thinks this is horribly verbose. I will move some parts into a trivia section. BTW: Many other explanations are the same.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 21:16, 6 March 2017 (UTC) | :::::Thanks [[User:Jaalenja|Jaalenja]], I'm sure we both are not the only one who thinks this is horribly verbose. I will move some parts into a trivia section. BTW: Many other explanations are the same.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 21:16, 6 March 2017 (UTC) | ||
::::::Or at least two... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:07, 7 March 2017 (UTC) | ::::::Or at least two... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:07, 7 March 2017 (UTC) | ||
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:Just a thank you | :Just a thank you | ||
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WOW lots of nastiness from Dgbrt here! A lot of which I disagree with EXCEPT verbosity. A lot of comics get overly verbose explanations - my current favourite example is 1800, about chess notation, where about 80% of the explanation should be purely deleted - and as such the focus should remain on helping people understand the comic. HOWEVER, a certain amount of leeway is required to assist such understanding, such as here with Dvorak. While it is not explicitly stated that Cueball's layout is currently set to Dvorak, past references make it likely, and I would think that Dvorak is the second-most used layout in the U.S. (and as has been stated, I think by Dgbrt, this comic IS American, set in America. My general approach towards cultural differences is "When in doubt, it's American"). So it would be inappropriate to say "Cueball's computer is set to Dvorak", but it would be appropriate and advisable to say "Cueball's computer is set to another layout, most likely Dvorak". | WOW lots of nastiness from Dgbrt here! A lot of which I disagree with EXCEPT verbosity. A lot of comics get overly verbose explanations - my current favourite example is 1800, about chess notation, where about 80% of the explanation should be purely deleted - and as such the focus should remain on helping people understand the comic. HOWEVER, a certain amount of leeway is required to assist such understanding, such as here with Dvorak. While it is not explicitly stated that Cueball's layout is currently set to Dvorak, past references make it likely, and I would think that Dvorak is the second-most used layout in the U.S. (and as has been stated, I think by Dgbrt, this comic IS American, set in America. My general approach towards cultural differences is "When in doubt, it's American"). So it would be inappropriate to say "Cueball's computer is set to Dvorak", but it would be appropriate and advisable to say "Cueball's computer is set to another layout, most likely Dvorak". | ||
− | As for the concept that pressing Shift can't do anything, try pressing Shift 8 times in a row (within about 5 seconds) on a standard installation of Windows 7 (not sure if they changed this in Windows 8 or 10). I've accidentally done this on occasion - pressing Shift then releasing it in indecision about if I want to start with a capital letter - it's the "Shortcut" to trigger an accessibility option about the shift key, I think for pressing it to toggle it on until the next key press, like on an iPad virtual keyboard. I trigger it often enough that I try to remember to do it on purpose just to turn off the shortcut. Ctrl has something similar, and one of them has something pop up when you hold it down too long (THAT might be the Shift key, it might be Ctrl that's quick presses). - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 05:54, 8 March | + | As for the concept that pressing Shift can't do anything, try pressing Shift 8 times in a row (within about 5 seconds) on a standard installation of Windows 7 (not sure if they changed this in Windows 8 or 10). I've accidentally done this on occasion - pressing Shift then releasing it in indecision about if I want to start with a capital letter - it's the "Shortcut" to trigger an accessibility option about the shift key, I think for pressing it to toggle it on until the next key press, like on an iPad virtual keyboard. I trigger it often enough that I try to remember to do it on purpose just to turn off the shortcut. Ctrl has something similar, and one of them has something pop up when you hold it down too long (THAT might be the Shift key, it might be Ctrl that's quick presses). - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/162.158.126.76|162.158.126.76]] 05:54, 8 March 2017 (UTC) |
::I'm not nasty, I've just carried on discussions started by others here. But talking against that overwhelming explanations and transcript is a little bit like running against windmills. Nevertheless we recently came to some conclusions: | ::I'm not nasty, I've just carried on discussions started by others here. But talking against that overwhelming explanations and transcript is a little bit like running against windmills. Nevertheless we recently came to some conclusions: | ||
::*The transcripts should be shortened to the content important for the jokes. | ::*The transcripts should be shortened to the content important for the jokes. | ||
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:::However, generally Cueball IS Randall, or rather an imaginary alter ego. Someone Randall uses to play out his thoughts. I'm sure Randall DOES indeed have some non-standard settings (like his keyboard probably IS set to Dvorak, which would be inconvenient to anyone using his laptop), and this thought occurred to him, so he imagined other more obnoxious things to do to a laptop - even ones which aren't possible - then he wrote this comic to play out what he was imagining.<br> | :::However, generally Cueball IS Randall, or rather an imaginary alter ego. Someone Randall uses to play out his thoughts. I'm sure Randall DOES indeed have some non-standard settings (like his keyboard probably IS set to Dvorak, which would be inconvenient to anyone using his laptop), and this thought occurred to him, so he imagined other more obnoxious things to do to a laptop - even ones which aren't possible - then he wrote this comic to play out what he was imagining.<br> | ||
:::While Dvorak is not mentioned, it is likely, as I said. Which would call for at least a mention, such as "likely Dvorak", and in a more important place than trivia. Perhaps even a quick explanation, "likely Dvorak, a layout some computer-savvy people use on the theory that it allows for faster typing". ANY further than that would indeed be better suited to the trivia section.<br> | :::While Dvorak is not mentioned, it is likely, as I said. Which would call for at least a mention, such as "likely Dvorak", and in a more important place than trivia. Perhaps even a quick explanation, "likely Dvorak, a layout some computer-savvy people use on the theory that it allows for faster typing". ANY further than that would indeed be better suited to the trivia section.<br> | ||
− | :::And I SWEAR I've had something which treated the shift keys different, probably some game, probably some DOS game. And I swear I've seen something use both shift keys together like this. - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.82|108.162.219.82]] 06:47, 10 March | + | :::And I SWEAR I've had something which treated the shift keys different, probably some game, probably some DOS game. And I swear I've seen something use both shift keys together like this. - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.82|108.162.219.82]] 06:47, 10 March 2017 (UTC) |
::::As someone born AND raised AND in Quebec, it's safe to say Cueball isn't using a French Canadian keyboard. :) On a French Canadian keyboard, it's still QWERTY, all the letters and numbers are the same, this layout only messes with the symbols. Such a warning would be overkill, leaving the keyboard as Cueball has it would only be a minor irritation. And as the comic has a clear American bent, other languages are simply less likely.<br> | ::::As someone born AND raised AND in Quebec, it's safe to say Cueball isn't using a French Canadian keyboard. :) On a French Canadian keyboard, it's still QWERTY, all the letters and numbers are the same, this layout only messes with the symbols. Such a warning would be overkill, leaving the keyboard as Cueball has it would only be a minor irritation. And as the comic has a clear American bent, other languages are simply less likely.<br> | ||
− | ::::And, to not start another comment block, my other thoughts are as such: relegating things to the Trivia section should be reserved for less relevant items. Dvorak - despite not being explicitly stated - is far too relevant here. Sure, no lengthy explanation should be included, but a mere mention would be appropriate and called for. As Kynde states, I'm sure many people stop reading at the transcript (such as myself... I don't need the transcript, so I don't read it. I usually only find the Trivia section by wanting to check the Comment section). Also, referencing related comics seem like they do indeed belong in the main Description. Again, people might not reach the Trivia section, and if the connection is clear enough, it's quite relevant and great to include. I'll often click / tap such links to remind myself of the other comic and see how they're related. - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.82|108.162.219.82]] 07:50, 10 March | + | ::::And, to not start another comment block, my other thoughts are as such: relegating things to the Trivia section should be reserved for less relevant items. Dvorak - despite not being explicitly stated - is far too relevant here. Sure, no lengthy explanation should be included, but a mere mention would be appropriate and called for. As Kynde states, I'm sure many people stop reading at the transcript (such as myself... I don't need the transcript, so I don't read it. I usually only find the Trivia section by wanting to check the Comment section). Also, referencing related comics seem like they do indeed belong in the main Description. Again, people might not reach the Trivia section, and if the connection is clear enough, it's quite relevant and great to include. I'll often click / tap such links to remind myself of the other comic and see how they're related. - NiceGuy1 [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.82|108.162.219.82]] 07:50, 10 March 2017 (UTC) |
:::::Again agree with NiceGuy1. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:59, 10 March 2017 (UTC) | :::::Again agree with NiceGuy1. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:59, 10 March 2017 (UTC) | ||
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:::This have nothing to do with the transcript discussion. I have not come to any agreement on the points you list above, and is completely in disagreement with most of it. Of course the pun should be explained, but I also think that any relevant reference to any other comic of recurring topic should be mentioned in the explanation. If the comic is directly relevant to some part in the current comic then it should be listed where the part that is relevant is explained. If it is similar comic I agree that they should go last. I do not at all agree with your category issue. A category is a great place to list stuff that is relevant to any comic in that category. If someone has used some time to find out interesting details pertaining to a given category it is great to have it there. Usually I put it in a collapsible section, so you do not have to read it or scroll past it to see the other comics in the category, and thus it should not bother anyone. And so far I have only heard of you that is bothered by it. It was your comments and incomplete reason that has been the reason for this debate and , who cares who started the debate. It is not the debate about transcripts here! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 18:39, 9 March 2017 (UTC) | :::This have nothing to do with the transcript discussion. I have not come to any agreement on the points you list above, and is completely in disagreement with most of it. Of course the pun should be explained, but I also think that any relevant reference to any other comic of recurring topic should be mentioned in the explanation. If the comic is directly relevant to some part in the current comic then it should be listed where the part that is relevant is explained. If it is similar comic I agree that they should go last. I do not at all agree with your category issue. A category is a great place to list stuff that is relevant to any comic in that category. If someone has used some time to find out interesting details pertaining to a given category it is great to have it there. Usually I put it in a collapsible section, so you do not have to read it or scroll past it to see the other comics in the category, and thus it should not bother anyone. And so far I have only heard of you that is bothered by it. It was your comments and incomplete reason that has been the reason for this debate and , who cares who started the debate. It is not the debate about transcripts here! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 18:39, 9 March 2017 (UTC) | ||
::::I can see NiceGuy1 agrees with much of what I just wrote here in his comment above. I do not know where you read that I agreed with you on the above? But I would like to see a citation, so I can see if I was unclear in my reply, if we talked past each other or if it is just you who wished for me to agree with you and read that into my reply? --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 10:02, 10 March 2017 (UTC) | ::::I can see NiceGuy1 agrees with much of what I just wrote here in his comment above. I do not know where you read that I agreed with you on the above? But I would like to see a citation, so I can see if I was unclear in my reply, if we talked past each other or if it is just you who wished for me to agree with you and read that into my reply? --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 10:02, 10 March 2017 (UTC) | ||
− | :::::This get's more and more funny. The comic is about nerdy computer configurations, so why is this possible Dvorak keyboard that important to you? The joke is somewhere else. And that laptop is not an old DOS box (see also the chapter below). I could tell you stories from that times when the PC and Microsoft was born. Did you know that in Word for DOS the ESC-key opened the menu? And the menu was on the bottom of the screen and there was no mouse support. Is this relevant for the comic? NO.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 20:30, 10 March 2017 (UTC) | + | :::::This get's more and more funny. The comic is about nerdy computer configurations, so why is this possible Dvorak keyboard that important to you? The joke is somewhere else. And that laptop is not an old DOS box (see also the chapter below). I could tell you stories from that times when the PC and Microsoft was born. Did you know that in Word for DOS the ESC-key opened the menu? And the menu was on the bottom of the screen and there was no mouse support. Is this relevant for the comic? NO.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 20:30, 10 March 2017 (UTC)--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 20:30, 10 March 2017 (UTC) |
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;Double shift | ;Double shift | ||
About the double shift thing, that is a option you can pass to setxkbmap (in specific -option grp:shifts_toggle). This is a standard utility installed on both my arch linux and ubuntu machine. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.241.40|108.162.241.40]] 22:29, 8 March 2017 (UTC) | About the double shift thing, that is a option you can pass to setxkbmap (in specific -option grp:shifts_toggle). This is a standard utility installed on both my arch linux and ubuntu machine. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.241.40|108.162.241.40]] 22:29, 8 March 2017 (UTC) | ||
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::Why does Cueball have to be using a real, current OS? For many older readers of this comic, the reference to pressing both shift keys will remind them of using the very popular SideKick, a TSR (Terminate & Stay Resident) program on old Dos PCs. SideKick would stay in the background until its hotkey was pressed. One hotkey available to activate SideKick was to press both shift keys at the same time. To detect the hotkey, SideKick would hook onto the keyboard interrupt. Programs hooked to the keyboard interrupt got key scan codes and, yes, left and right shift key generated different scan codes. (My first comment, hopefully in the right format.)[[Special:Contributions/108.162.210.100|108.162.210.100]] 16:59, 9 March 2017 (UTC) | ::Why does Cueball have to be using a real, current OS? For many older readers of this comic, the reference to pressing both shift keys will remind them of using the very popular SideKick, a TSR (Terminate & Stay Resident) program on old Dos PCs. SideKick would stay in the background until its hotkey was pressed. One hotkey available to activate SideKick was to press both shift keys at the same time. To detect the hotkey, SideKick would hook onto the keyboard interrupt. Programs hooked to the keyboard interrupt got key scan codes and, yes, left and right shift key generated different scan codes. (My first comment, hopefully in the right format.)[[Special:Contributions/108.162.210.100|108.162.210.100]] 16:59, 9 March 2017 (UTC) | ||
:::Great history. My first PC had a 20 MByte hard drive (yes, not main memory -- that was 512 kByte) and NO mouse. Linux was not born and the monitors were just monochrome. By that time it was common to use Assembler to handle interrupts -- but do you really see this in the picture? For me it's a modern laptop.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 19:23, 9 March 2017 (UTC) | :::Great history. My first PC had a 20 MByte hard drive (yes, not main memory -- that was 512 kByte) and NO mouse. Linux was not born and the monitors were just monochrome. By that time it was common to use Assembler to handle interrupts -- but do you really see this in the picture? For me it's a modern laptop.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 19:23, 9 March 2017 (UTC) | ||
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− | + | ;Further discussion on other subject goes here below |