Editing Talk:2043: Boathouses and Houseboats

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The state of California already believes that a house held by a car is a housecar:
:Vehicle Code - VEH
:DIVISION 1. WORDS AND PHRASES DEFINED [100 - 681]  ( Division 1 enacted by Stats. 1959, Ch. 3. )
:362.  
:A “house car” is a motor vehicle originally designed, or permanently altered, and equipped for human habitation, or to which a camper has been permanently attached. A motor vehicle to which a camper has been temporarily attached is not a house car except that, for the purposes of Division 11 (commencing with Section 21000) and Division 12 (commencing with Section 24000), a motor vehicle equipped with a camper having an axle that is designed to support a portion of the weight of the camper unit shall be considered a three-axle house car regardless of the method of attachment or manner of registration. A house car shall not be deemed to be a motortruck.[http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH&sectionNum=362.]
Bonus:  "motortruck" does indeed refer to a truck that holds a motor.
[[User:Jordan Brown|Jordan Brown]] ([[User talk:Jordan Brown|talk]]) 15:57, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
:: The State of California believes [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/796:_Bad_Ex all sort of strange things] [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 18:20, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
Randall did just correct the comic. The first version said "this [row] held by this [column]", which would have meant, that e.g. a towtruck is a car held by a car, which is just wrong. It has just be updated to the correct "a this [column] that holds a this [row]". I do not know how to change that here. Should be mentioned in Trivia [[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 16:11, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
:Thanks for your eagle eyes. I've uploaded the new version, please be patient until the cache is expired and you can see it. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 16:48, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

'''Boat boat'''

Shouldn't a boat that holds another boat be some sort of either carrier, or at-sea repair dock?

Sort of like a mothership, or a drydock?
Or an oil rig (technically considered a ship by international law), etc?

For that matter, how about the distinction between a boat and a ship?
[[User:Keybounce|Keybounce]] ([[User talk:Keybounce|talk]]) 16:34, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
:well... with the original version it fits. a boat held by another boat is a lifeboat. But the new version it doesnt. a boat that holds another boat would be, as you say, carrier, mothership, etc. looks like randall didn't think this through to the end... [[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 16:40, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
:Floating Drydock? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_dock#Floating] {{unsigned|OldCorps}}
:As far as I can remember, a ship is a boat that can manage being away from shore for more than a day [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 18:16, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

::Similar failing: an ''apartment'' is the small entity—the "house" that is contained by the larger house. ''Apartment building'' (or ''apartment complex'') would have been the term to be replaced. [[User:Jameslucas|jameslucas]] <small>([[User talk:Jameslucas|" "]] / [[Special:Contributions/Jameslucas|+]])</small> 17:42, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
::: Agreed. His list of words contains elements that fall into either the 'x held by y' or 'x that holds y' definition, so neither definition can work for all the words! Only way to fix is to replace some of the words as suggested ('apartment building' instead of 'apartment').[[Special:Contributions/162.158.154.241|162.158.154.241]] 17:52, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

You're entirely correct on both counts. Lifeboats are carried by other boats, and ships that can carry other ships do exist. This comic also fails to distinguish between boats and ships, and cars, trucks, and trailers.
While a Boathouse is indeed a house for boats, a boat ''trailer'' is usually a trailer and not a car- the name already follows Randell's suggested logic: it's a trailer (characterized by lacking it's own engine, steering, and driver's cabin) that holds one or more boats. In addition, both tow trucks and car carriers are large enough to be properly referred to as trucks (the smallest type of tow truck I know of is built on a pickup truck chassis) and are fully capable to towing or carrying other trucks as well as cars, making the term carcar inaccurate. Yes, I'm being pedantic, but this might be worth mentioning in explanation. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.122.60|162.158.122.60]] 16:44, 7 September 2018 (UTC)Chris Long

:Each of the compound words that Randall has made up here are still "correct" - but general. The failure to distinguish between multiple examples isn't a "bug" here; it's a feature of the productive nature of novel compounding in English. Each of 'apartment', 'tow truck' and 'lifeboat' should be treated as ''an'' example of 'househouse', 'carcar' and 'boatboat', respectively, but given the way English treats novel compounds, they can't be the ''only'' examples. {{unsigned ip|172.68.150.76}}
::He tries to get a logic in there, as in the difference between boathouse and houseboat, to show which supports which, but fails to do so. While your comment is in itself ok, the comic clearly tries to put in a logic and fails to do so.[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 20:41, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

::I wouldn't read too much into it. This comic is, of course, lighthearted in nature, and I'm pretty sure Randall doesn't ''literally'' hold these views and call for the creation of a "carcar" or something. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.46.41|172.68.46.41]] 04:35, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

'''Bananaphone'''

Is this a spoiler for the [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/2000:_xkcd_Phone_2000 XKCD phone 2001]?  Will this phone be edible, yellow and be 10G-erine compatible? [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 18:16, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

More like this [https://bananaphone.io/ banana phone][[Special:Contributions/172.68.34.16|172.68.34.16]] 20:12, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
I believe it references [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIiZ3vvZ78s this song] by Raffi.--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.134.112|162.158.134.112]] 09:28, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
'''Compounding nouns'''

As a native German speaker I've learned in school that compounding nouns in German like "Hausboot" are always written as "house boat" in English, the nouns do not form to a new single noun. And I'm still sure that "Hausbootbriefkasten" (Haus-boot-brief-kasten) still translates literally to something like "house boats letter box" in the original Oxford English domain, while "letterbox of a houseboat" is probably the much better translation. Nonetheless the order at the German ''looong'' noun is still correct: There's a box, for a letter, on a boat, which supports a house. And a record holder in German: {{w|Donaudampfschiffahrtselektrizitätenhauptbetriebswerkbauunterbeamtengesellschaft}}, even Germans are annoyed... --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 20:31, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

If a boat that carries a boat is called a ship, should "ship" be in the boatboat square instead of "lifeboat"? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.62.64|172.69.62.64]] 01:37, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
@@ Line 8: / Line 8: @@
 [[User:Jordan Brown|Jordan Brown]] ([[User talk:Jordan Brown|talk]]) 15:57, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
 :: The State of California believes [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/796:_Bad_Ex all sort of strange things] [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 18:20, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
-: Yes, but that's still not a "mobile home". It's a "motor home" in most states, e.g. Oregon. ORS 801.350 says "'Motor home' means a motor vehicle that: (1) Is reconstructed, permanently altered or originally designed to provide facilities for human habitation; or (2) Has a structure permanently attached to it that would be a camper if the structure was not permanently attached to the motor vehicle." I'm fine with Randall calling this a housecar, but he's wrong when he says the conventional name for it is mobile home. "Mobile home" is a colloquial term for a manufactured home that is delivered on wheels and then usually has its wheels removed, so it becomes stationary for the rest of its life. That's definitely not a housecar. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.149|108.162.246.149]] 15:38, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
 Randall did just correct the comic. The first version said "this [row] held by this [column]", which would have meant, that e.g. a towtruck is a car held by a car, which is just wrong. It has just be updated to the correct "a this [column] that holds a this [row]". I do not know how to change that here. Should be mentioned in Trivia [[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 16:11, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
 :Thanks for your eagle eyes. I've uploaded the new version, please be patient until the cache is expired and you can see it. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 16:48, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
-::Just edited this Trivia section, as the change is more stylistic, rather than a change in meaning. Randall simply changes from the passive voice. "[Row] held by [Column]" is equivalent to "A [Column] that holds a [Row]". [[Special:Contributions/162.158.75.154|162.158.75.154]] 14:35, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
-:::It is not just a change of style, it also changes which one are right and which are wrong. A tow truck is something that holds something, while, an appartment is something held by something, so in either case some are wrong, and he just changed which ones. But most important: in the first version the example of boat house was wrong, as by his definition it was a boat held by a house, which is not true. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 18:52, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
-Here in the UK mobile home can mean a large RV (small ones are called camper vans). By large, I mean small-medium in the USA. [[User:Nikkilocje|Nikkilocje]] ([[User talk:Nikkilocje|talk]]) 19:35, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
-I like that the Wikipedia article [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houseboat#For_recreation Houseboat] actually contains a "doghouseboat" [[Special:Contributions/162.158.155.86|162.158.155.86]] 00:20, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
 '''Boat boat'''
@@ Line 31: / Line 23: @@
 :Floating Drydock? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_dock#Floating] {{unsigned|OldCorps}}
 :As far as I can remember, a ship is a boat that can manage being away from shore for more than a day [[User:Kev|Kev]] ([[User talk:Kev|talk]]) 18:16, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
-:I've always heard that a ship is a boat that's big enough to carry other boats. If it carries a lifeboat, then it's a ship. Submarines do not have lifeboats, so they are called "boats" not ships. Inflatable rafts don't count. A sailboat that carries an inflatable raft is still a boat. And yes, there is such a thing as a ship that carries other ships. Google the Blue Marlin. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.106.90|162.158.106.90]] 15:43, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
 ::Similar failing: an ''apartment'' is the small entity—the "house" that is contained by the larger house. ''Apartment building'' (or ''apartment complex'') would have been the term to be replaced. [[User:Jameslucas|jameslucas]] <small>([[User talk:Jameslucas|" "]] / [[Special:Contributions/Jameslucas|+]])</small> 17:42, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
@@ Line 43: / Line 34: @@
 ::I wouldn't read too much into it. This comic is, of course, lighthearted in nature, and I'm pretty sure Randall doesn't ''literally'' hold these views and call for the creation of a "carcar" or something. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.46.41|172.68.46.41]] 04:35, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
-To continue the convention, "boatboat", as a "life-boat" is a mistake. But i don't think Randall is much of a practical sailor. He lives inland, and probably isn't nearly as familiar with ships as he is with cars. more correct choices to repeat the convention used elsewhere in the comic, could easily be tugboat, carrier ship, or barge. sep 8, guest {{unsigned ip|162.158.62.57}}
 '''Bananaphone'''
@@ Line 51: / Line 40: @@
 More like this [https://bananaphone.io/ banana phone][[Special:Contributions/172.68.34.16|172.68.34.16]] 20:12, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
 I believe it references [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIiZ3vvZ78s this song] by Raffi.--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.134.112|162.158.134.112]] 09:28, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
 '''Compounding nouns'''
 As a native German speaker I've learned in school that compounding nouns in German like "Hausboot" are always written as "house boat" in English, the nouns do not form to a new single noun. And I'm still sure that "Hausbootbriefkasten" (Haus-boot-brief-kasten) still translates literally to something like "house boats letter box" in the original Oxford English domain, while "letterbox of a houseboat" is probably the much better translation. Nonetheless the order at the German ''looong'' noun is still correct: There's a box, for a letter, on a boat, which supports a house. And a record holder in German: {{w|Donaudampfschiffahrtselektrizitätenhauptbetriebswerkbauunterbeamtengesellschaft}}, even Germans are annoyed... --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 20:31, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
-:We do obviously have closed compounds as well (and hyphenated ones), but most people aren't going to consider "house boat" annoyingly incorrect, but "snowski" would be jarring, so that is a good rule of thumb you were taught. And I would translate "Hausbootbriefkasten" as "houseboat's mailbox" (or letterbox where people call mailboxes letterboxes) as the X's Y form typically sounds more natural than Y of (the) X, even though they mean basically the same thing. Y of the X is more for archaic or stilted speech, except in a few phrases like "end of the line" and "root of the problem." We just usually stop closed compounds at 2 or maybe 3 parts in English. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.48.99|173.245.48.99]] 20:51, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
 If a boat that carries a boat is called a ship, should "ship" be in the boatboat square instead of "lifeboat"? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.62.64|172.69.62.64]] 01:37, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
-So....basically transform english to dutch ? We do this all the time. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.77.98|141.101.77.98]] 07:20, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
-'''1984, anyone?'''
-I was just reading this explanation and when I read the sentence "Randall is engaging in creative linguistics again" I just thought: No, he's applying Newspeak. While - of course - the words here are not to be found in the novel 1984 (at least I'm not aware of them) they sound like something that would be created if Newspeak was lifted to the next level - reduce the number of individual words and try to express as much as possible with compounds of the remaining words. Thoughts? [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 07:18, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
-A trailer is not a car, so a car that holds a boat is not a boat trailer. That would be something like a tow truck, but for boats.
-Also, "housecar" is what we call a car that holds a house in Swedish. [[User:Kapten-N|Kapten-N]] ([[User talk:Kapten-N|talk]]) 09:53, 22 February 2024 (UTC)