User talk:Kynde

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[edit] Cueball references

Hi, please do not remove the Cueball references here. He is a standard character. The category Category:Comics featuring Cueball gives just an overview about all comics showing this stick figure. And just one is him, not defined by Randall but by us. --Dgbrt (talk) 21:10, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

But who should define who Cueball is? You? I could see him as both here. And somebody did. You have just corrected back so that the Cueball in the explain is switched to the other charachter in the transcript. At least one of these should then be changed to match the other. It is thus also clear that people have different views of what Cueball stands for. Is he the one trolling, or is he the one who knows which movie Blade Runner is? Kynde (talk) 07:35, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
By the way - I did not remove the reference to the chategory - but only in the text as described above. Kynde (talk) 07:38, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

[edit] Minor tags on edits

Also, a minor concern, but please be more sparing in your use of "minor" tags on edits. Addition of 1200 characters (e.g. . . m Talk:1496: Art Project‎; 20:04 . . (+1,240)‎ . . ‎Kynde, or . . m 1497: New Products‎; 19:12 . . (-419)‎ . . ‎Kynde →‎Explanation: It does not fit into category four! See new test. I also deleted a lot of text, that already was written below, and was basically the same as the one stille) is NOT minor. Djbrasier (talk) 21:22, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

When adding a new comment to the talk page I newer see this as a major change. This i a discussion not a change to the explanation!. I do not believe it was a big change removing the text you wrote, when all of it basically was written below. Try and read your version, and see that it was more or less double. Also I had already once removed the reference to the fourth category. If the guy has signed up he have no problems with this company. Also it is mentioned that the fourth category is not a company he is afraid off, but just someone they do not like. --Kynde (talk) 21:42, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you

I like what you did at 1402: Harpoons. Thank you.

You're welcome - I did it based on your comment Kynde (talk) 03:41, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

[edit] 980: Money

Hey, you've done an amazing job on the money comic's transcript, but the explanation page is still marked as incomplete. Is there actually anything left to be done on it? Thanks! Davak72 (talk) 03:04, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks allot. I have replied on the Money page where you repeated the above. I can even remember the number although it was some time since I did the transcript. --Kynde (talk) 09:44, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

[edit] Merge Cueball & Rob

You seem to have changed some comics in which formerly more than one cueball appeared to make it such that none were called cueball (e.g. Orb Hammer). But many persist, see transcripts in:

We should probably seek broader consensus before rewriting all these transcripts. There seems to me to be a general trend to name one "Cueball" and call the others "Friend" or somesuch in these cases and I'm concerned that you seem to want to singlehandedly rewrite all that convention. Djbrasier (talk) 21:07, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

It is typically the first who writes the transcript who decides who of the Cueballs (or Megans) he feel represents the real Cueball. However, there is no real behavior of Cueball. So who should decide. I could also change these transcripts so it becomes the other character who becomes Cueball, because I think the first transcripter did it wrong. This was exactly what happened with the two Megan-like comics. First it was Megan and Danish. Then unidentified girl and Megan. Then Megan and unidentified girl, then two Megan like girls with short and long hair and finally you reverted it to my first ide: Unidentified girl and Megan. So thanks for showing me these six double Cueball comics. I will change asap. And as I answered your comment on 1496: Art Project Rob is already listed as part of the category for Comics featuring Cueball: and this is listed as the first entry when going to the page for Category:Comics featuring Cueball: Thus he should not be merged--Kynde (talk) 21:21, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
Can you please add this discussion here [1]. I have refrained from making these sort of substantial changes and want to seek a broader consensus. Please use the community forum to seek such consensus before making major unilateral changes like that. Djbrasier (talk) 21:24, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
Done with interests --Kynde (talk) 22:02, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
there are dozens of multiple-Cueball comments. Please don't change them to "man 1", "man 2" until we can reach a braoder consensus. I will not be changing them to "Rob" without consensus. This is not something to be done all at once and making that many changes will prompt me to request that an admin freeze your account. Djbrasier (talk) 21:27, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
I was about to write this before your comment no. two. So this was a reply to your previous comment: "I can post it there, but these changes has been underway a long time for almost a year. But it is hard to find these comics as I do not go through them just to find incidences. How long have you been active in xkcd. I can see your page has been created today, but maybe you were active long before that?"--Kynde (talk) 21:42, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
This is a comment to your next comment: "It is very hard to threaten someone like that already. I have been making these changes before, and by the way never to man 1 or man 2. I have been one of the top contributers for more than a year. I hope this is not just because I reverted one of your contributions to Mondays comic? --Kynde (talk21:42, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
I didn't want to threaten. I think consistent style is important, and general style I see is in multi-Cueball comics, one is ID'd as Cueball and others are "Friend", etc. Anyone unilaterally changing an established style should seek consensus first.
Additionally, I think your undo on my edit actually improved the explanation.
Finally, if you know how to solicit more opinions on the matter at hand, please let me know (or do it). Thanks! Djbrasier (talk) 23:53, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
Thanks on the edit appraisal. As I wrote on the talk page, yours was also much better phrased the second time. I do not know how to get anyone to go read your comment except by giving them the message like you did with me. Or putting a link to it from the talk page of the double Megan comic, and maybe on some of the double Cueball comics too. I did not understand the "solicit more opinions" at first (why I wrote that last part in my comment below "how many will read"). So you do realize, I can see now, that not many will. By the way I'm Danish... That is, I'm neither a mean girl or a pastry cake, but from Denmark. And although I'm, really good at English for everyday use, it is not by far a language I can understand everything. But suddenly I got your message.--Kynde (talk) 20:10, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

My only point is we need to wait until consensus is reached before undoing years of precedent in Cueball naming. Djbrasier (talk) 22:38, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Well as I have made fairly clear there is no consensus. Because it is up to the first one who writes the transcript to decide who is the friend. And this often leads to discussion or changes forth and back (like we just saw with two Megans) since people have different opinion on how Cueball should behave, since they do not know that Cueball can behave anyway Randall needs him to. Often he reflects Randall's intelligence, but just as often he is a prick behaving horribly towards girls etc. So if there are two, one good and one bad, you cannot say the good one is Cueball. And how many do you think reads your post? --Kynde (talk) 19:43, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

I have had a look at the comics you have listed. Here are my comments:

  • 1405:_Meteor
    • Here I would have changed - since it is believed that Cueball often represents Randall's version of himself - especially when it is his hobby. Of course it is then Randall who is pedantic, and thus Cueball. So I would change the Cueball reference. So here we could have a stupid editing war, instead of writing something else.
  • 525:_I_Know_You're_Listening
    • Here there is only one Cueball speaking. And the other is listening in. So here I would no object so much. Maybe I would mention that the other looks like Cueball.
  • 192:_Working_for_Google
    • Here I would have changed - since I would think that Cueball should have the most interesting story, and also that this Cueball is Randall as it is known that Randall has an interest in Google and has also been cheated by their aptitude test (so much that he did the famous 356: Nerd Sniping). So also here I would change the Cueball reference. So again stupid editing war, instead of writing something else.
  • 187:_The_Familiar
    • Here I would have changed - since I would thing that Cueball should be the one always interested in computers. Not the other way. I know there are other comics where he enjoys nature. But Also a lot where he enjoys computers out of hand and math etc. So again I would have changed the Cueball reference. So again stupid editing war, instead of writing something else.
  • 79:_Iambic_Pentameter
    • Here I agree with the Cueball = Randall - it's Randall my hobby and thus the one with the Hobby is Cueball. But I would still prefer they are not named. some might argue against me on the hobby, saying the Cueball with the hobby is "Randall" so the other Cueball is "Cueball". Thus once more editing war. But I would not start it. But still probably mention that the Cueball with a hobby is Randall.
  • 65:_Banter
    • What can I say. The first is called Cueball the other is not. They have the same amount of text, and they are obviously both gay and missing out. I would definitely loose the Cueball reference here.

That is my ten cents about these six examples. Maybe we should create a category called multiple Cueballs. --Kynde (talk) 20:02, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

Note that I have not changed any of these... yet. But maybe I should revert those three I think is plain wrong, so the Cueball and friend is changed. Then we can see if anyone changes back? ;-) --Kynde (talk) 20:02, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
I advise waiting. If you want to enact 4, go for it, but then put in the discussion a link to our discussion for all the changes you make so hopefully someone besides you and me goes to that page and weighs in.

To answer your question, I've read xkcd for years (I started reading regularly around the time there were ~500 total comics), lurked on explainxkcd and made anonymous minor edits for most of that time. I set up an account in July 2013, when I began making more regular edits.

I recognize that the issue has a large amount of inertia. My point is precisely that there are 9 "Rob" comics and countless Cueball. But, as I stated on the page, there is ample evidence that the same character (Black Hat's friend/roommate, Megan's boyfriend) is named Rob. I haven't done a count, but I suspect that "Megan" is named in the comic fewer than 9 times, but characters of her appearance are all called "Megan".

Yes, multiple Megans triggered the idea that's been brewing in my mind since someone (not me) made an anonymous comment on a relatively recent Rob comic [1168: tar]. Since I read that it's been sitting in my mind, but I haven't wanted to make an issue. However, the asymmetry between Megan/Cutie and Rob/Cueball grates for me and I want to urge the community here to evaluate critically whether it is the right thing or an inappropriate historical artifact. Years ago, [Cutie] was abolished (redirects now to [Megan]), I think it's objectively appropriate to make a symmetrical arrangement for Rob/Cueball (hence my options 2 & 3 in the public discussion thread).

For now, if you want to go changing all those comics go ahead. I won't argue or revert, but I request that you put the following (or something close to it) in the discussion of all the comics you change "I've removed the name 'Cueball' from this and several other comics that have multiple Cueball's in them as per my position on the issue currently under discussion at if you support this change or disagree with it, please weigh in on that discussion thread."

Thank you and I look forward to hearing from more users. Djbrasier (talk) 00:04, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Dear Djbrasier
(By the way my name is Kynde - that is both my nick and my middle name).
Thanks for this very open talk. I like you much better now ;-)
If I do change any of these I will do as you ask. It is not like I have forever to do these changes, although I for sure use too much time already on explain... I think I will add the category:Comics with multiple Cueballs. What do you think of the name if I do (and if I do then maybe also make one with Category:Comics where Megan is named Megan. Please tell me you can think of a better name for that one ;-) I only know of the three now mentioned on Megans page.
As you can see om my page, I have only used explain xkcd since late 2013. So you have been member longer than me by some months. I did not read xkcd before that - became fascinated with the What if section on xkcd and when I finished with those I turned to the comic. But found that I failed to understand quite a few, and thus searched and found this page. I have read them as they come out since then, and then also began reading from no. 1. But since I always look in this page for the explanation and like to contribute I only progress very slowly. Recently I have reached 540: Base System where I have made several improvements additions and corrections. And that is as far as I have reached reading straight fro no. 1. But I have of course used the cross referencing and thus read many in between that and those from October 2013.
Regards Kynde --Kynde (talk) 08:02, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
Happy to have the discussion and to get to wiki-know you. I definitely see your points. I added a few comments and links to our public discussion in the hopes that, over time, it will attract more users to the community portal discussion. I suspect it will take some months for enough users to weigh in that we have a reasonable consensus. I think that if you remove "Cueball" from some of the comics you mentioned above and put a link to the portal page in the discussion block of those comments, that will prompt community input.
DJ Djbrasier (talk) 13:40, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

I also added incomplete tags to a few comics in which I think a strong argument can be made that "Cueball" is really Rob, despite his name not showing up (Boombox & Cover-up) Djbrasier (talk) 13:49, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

Well I disagree again. See the talk pages. But then it is out for discussion.--Kynde (talk) 13:19, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

I have changed several of the Multiple Cueballs comics as you said was OK with you. See the new caregory. --Kynde (talk) 09:41, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

[edit] xkcloud permalink usernames

You said "The user name and user picture stay the same though.", An Anon had mentioned that 3c34fb48-1a07-51d2-a81d-5257a3681024 had the name "Lauren Ibsen Dolores Amit" and changed to "Margaret5", then by the time I looked at it, it had "Virginia2006". It still has "Virginia2006" now, but since it has changed twice I wouldn't assume it is now permanent. Due to this, I haven't been saving the usernames. Could you confirm that you see Virginia2006? Perhaps it's different for each user. -452 (talk) 21:09, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

Yes I did see Virginia2006. I think it may change some times, but then suddenly it could become stable? The permalink used on the main page of the explain, was mine. I noted it was Mark Zuckerberg. But this has changed. But now I think it is stuck on: Destiny1983 and always with the skating "Megan". Can you confirm this: . Cool that you have collected all these images. Can we put the link under the permalink section. As you can see I'm trying to completely revise the page so it is easier to find the explain and then only see the detail if you are interested. Hope you like these changes --Kynde (talk) 21:27, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, I see Destiny1983 on that one too. I like the changes, they make everything much clearer. -452 (talk) 21:30, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. I was trying to make it easier to write some extra info on your permalink page, and deleted most of them. Luckily they are not deleted permanently. But the page is so big I have trouble loading it. I try to repair my mistake, but else please do so for me, and sorry in advance. --Kynde (talk) 21:45, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
NP, &action=history is a life-saver. I was going to suggest using &action=edit&section=0, but I see you've already added a description heading. It also lags pretty badly for me so I expect I'll have to stop at 10000, and I'm already up to 8444 since my last edit to the page. -452 (talk) 22:20, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
Yes I think I fixed it but I had to split it in three uploads. How many different pictures do you think there are. I guess some off them are the same? (And same for text). Maybe the last part can be seen by sorting the table. But does the image also have the same name when used more than once? --Kynde (talk) 22:33, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
Well, I know of 1419 unique images so far. Yes, both images and text are reused for different permalinks, some come up a lot more frequently than others. If you click the heading, you can sort by either image or text, which will group them together. It's kind of interesting to see different captions for the same image. If you mean the same username, I haven't checked. I also haven't checked whether the same pair of image and text ever appear together as different permalinks, I'll check that eventually, later, right now... nope. I imagine the prompt never even suggests a caption which is already associated with an image. -452 (talk) 23:27, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
I hit the 2mb page limit at 10217 permalinks, out of the 15000+ I have found, so I've reduced the table to only show each image and text once. As in, either the image or text once, so there will be a couple of duplicate images and text. So what I said previously about sorting to see different captions for the same image no longer applies, but the page will be more manageable this way. -452 (talk) 13:53, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
So you think that it will not be possible for anyone to add the same image to the same caption, because this caption will never again come up with this image or the other way around? I can see yo have removed the ? where they where something else like turtles... Nice. What about all the links below? Are they just the other 10.000 links not associated with a new image or caption, just a different combination? If so maybe this should be made clear. You could make a new section heading for them. Would it be possible to list them in any other way, or is this to save space? Alternatively you could make a new subpage with extra permalinks for further study. We of course both know that no one will ever read these again ;-) But nice work anyway. --Kynde (talk) 14:17, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
So far, I've never found the same image and same caption, but I'll keep checking, as I'm still storing all of the information, just not posting the full list to the wiki now. The other links at the bottom are all 15000+ permalinks I've found, good point about making that more clear. It might also be a good idea to list them on another separate page to save space, but they're not for further study, as I have all the images and captions associated with them, there just isn't room to display all of the information, because it would currently take 3mb+. Regarding the symbols, I was previously pasting my javascript output into my text editor to format them, but now I have my script format them for me, so the symbols are preserved. - and it's also a lot easier for me. -452 (talk) 14:29, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
Well, I've hit the 2 megabyte limit again, so it looks like we'll have to put the table on one page and the list of links on another. Any suggestions for the page titles? -452 (talk) 15:25, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
You are crazy :-) My suggestion is that you create a new page called Table of Permalink (with the explanation at the top the same, but now linking to the old page, and vice versa for the old page to the new). Then let the list of permalink stay on the old page. And move the table to the new page. Finally, look at what pages direct to the old page, and redirect them to the new, only leaving link to the old page from the new one. The table is most important. The problem with your table is that it is too big for anyone to load... Maybe there should even be another page in between. Which is called - a selection of permalink. And then with link to the full table and links, with a fair warning about huge amount of data (Big data.). My explorer just went down trying to load the page (or maybe I'm just too impatient?) --Kynde (talk) 11:36, 24 April 2015 (UTC) (Ah, now it is finished loading...)
Thanks. I haven't tried it in internet explorer, but the table loads okay with Chrome on my laptop I bought 7 years ago. Now that the pages are split, it might load faster for you. -452 (talk) 18:58, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

[edit] Hoverboard Transcript

Sorry to ask about such a minor thing, just curious about why the man on the raised plateau can't be a woman. Elsewhere in the comic Darth Vader is seen explaining Steven Universe to someone. 13:46, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

Hi - it cold be. But to me it looks like a family. But to be honest I had not expected anyone to change it, and did not notice before I had copy pasted some text in from the document I write the transcript in. But hopefully at some time this family (or whatever) becomes part of the effort to explain the entire comic. My guess is that someone will know who it is - that they are from some TV series or movie. In that case it will become clear if it is (as I assumed) a family with mom and dad and two children or if it is a lesbian couple or something entirely different... --Kynde (talk) 20:02, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
The family resembles the main characters of Steven Universe, a cartoon(the characters being three women and a child) The explanation page also lists them as such(Steven Universe and the Crystal Gems - (x: 551664, y: -567383). 21:03, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
Perfect thanks. Then is makes sense with the Vader reference. Is it the boy who is Steven? And is the low girl also a grown woman? I will look it up but thanks for answering. --Kynde (talk) 22:07, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
Fixed the transcript. Some of the link I put in, is not supposed to be there, but may be moved once they are explained in the main article.--Kynde (talk) 22:20, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

[edit] Hair Bun "Girl"

Hi Kynde, I noticed you created the character page for "Hair Bun Girl". This naming convention is inconsistent with most of the other characters named here, e.g. Cueball, Ponytail, Hairy, et al. Beret Guy is a potential counterexample, but the words "guy" and "man" don't have the same relationship as "girl" and "woman". Partly for consistency, and partly for simple feminism, I'd like to open a conversation about changing the character's name please. Jkshapiro (talk) 04:08, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

I think it is exactly the same as guy vs. girl. Hair Bun Woman is just too cumbersome. But if you can find a name like Ponytail that fits then by all means. Hairbun just doesn't do it for me. But I do not have any specific feelings for this name, I just found that she was used too often to not have a character page. So I will not take offence against you trying to find a better name through a conversation. Contraty to for instance Megan, which once was Cuetie (sexistick I think), it will not be so hard to change Hair Bun Girl's name to something else, but still she has just reached comic no. 20 so it is not easy to find all the references. Are you ready to do that job if you do get a new name for her? Because else it is just semantics --Kynde (talk) 15:20, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
Thanks, appreciate it. Yes I am ready to do the job. What would you recommend for next steps? Should I raise the issue at Jkshapiro (talk) 04:06, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
Your welcome, and good luck. Try to see this post regarding the naming convention of Cueball and Megan which much to my joy did not end up in altering anything, but they were "old" names, Hair Bun Girl is new. You could post you suggestion there. And maybe make a note at the top of Hair Bun Girl's page? (You can write Notice as a template just like the incomplete. Check out this old version of Cueball page history). Now that I think about it Hairbun is probably as good a name as Ponytail. So I would think that would be a decent proposal for a change. --Kynde (talk) 09:08, 7 February 2016 (UTC)
Okay, process started. Thank you for the good wishes and guidance. Jkshapiro (talk) 04:31, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

[edit] Girl With Hairbun?

I have identified several comics that have a girl (clearly a child) similar in appearance to Hairbun. Examples include 1104: Feathers, 1352: Cosmologist on a Tire Swing and 1370: President. Would these people be included under Hairbun? Most of them are not marked as such. And what are the requirments to make a new character? I think this girl has appeared rather often. (talk) (please sign your comments with ~~~~)

Hi. If you look at the description for Hairbun it clearly states that she is an adult as are Ponytail and Cueball etc. So no, these examples should not be included in Hairbun category. If you look at the last entry on the talk page of President I suggested a children category. But I would agree that a category with curious girl or science girl could be relevant. She is also in 1611: Baking Soda and Vinegar for instance. If there are about five comics that could go in a new category it is just to create it. The naming is important though. See othere categories for what to write on the category page. I have made several including Hairbun --Kynde (talk) 13:12, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for your input. I think I will be creating this category soon. Since most of the names seem to refer to the hairstyles (they are recognizable) I think I'll be going with the name "Double Bun Girl".

[edit] Marking edits as minor edits

Hey, I noticed that you mark lot of your edits as minor edits while most of them aren't. For example, [this] and probably [this] too constitute as a minor edit, but these - [[1]], [[2]], [[3]], etc. aren't minor edits. Refer to the wikipedia guidelines for minor edits - Help:Minor_edit.

Examples include typographical corrections, formatting and presentational changes, and rearrangements of text without modification of its content. A minor edit is one that the editor believes requires no review and could never be the subject of a dispute.

Basically, if you are adding/removing even a little bit of content, it is not minor. 23:31, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

Oh, and how in the world is [this ] and [this ] minor !! 23:47, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

Sorry about that. I just updated my settings where it had been set to default: "Mark all edits minor by default". If I by mistake click OK to an update before clicking that off it was to late. But now it will be the other way instead. --Kynde (talk) 10:19, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
Cool, no worries. It happens. I was just surprised that everything was marked minor. Anyway, keep up the good work. I see that you're finishing up all the incomplete explanations and improving comics in general. Great work ! :) 01:04, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for the support, nice to get some feedback. Also great that someone mentions when you are doing something the wrong way. I had only limited experience with wiki pages before signing up here, and I had not read the wiki page on minor edits, but now I have. How come you have chosen not to have an account? Seems like you also make several comments and changes... which is great ;-) --Kynde (talk) 08:11, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

[edit] Please create the discussion page for today's comic.

Thanks. 15:02, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Well just did that (for 1652: Conditionals) but not because I saw this comment, just before. I guess it is not possible for no registered users to create pages? Well I fulfilled your wish before I knew about it ;-) --Kynde (talk) 15:05, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

[edit] Moving comments around

Please do not move people's comments into unrelated discussions without asking them, and if you do, make sure the timestamps in the reply chain aren't out of order. Mikemk (talk) 20:36, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

I expect you were referring to Talk:1659: Tire Swing? Well all comments I moved were regarding the same question of who the girls looked like, and they should have been posted as replies to the first. There were no time stamp on the first comment and your post asking if they were children were posted straight under a post about if they were Megan and Hair Bun girl or Thelma and Louise. So I do believe your comment belong under that statement. But fine by my that it just stand beneath instead of being indented. The time stamp of all comments seem to be in time order as I see it. It would get really confusing or I would have to make the same reply three times if they were not together. The comments in between were not at all related and there should be no confusion. So I think it made the discussion page much more useful what I did.--Kynde (talk) 20:52, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
Well I don't know about the other users, but I know for a fact that mine wasn't in response to the first one. I don't even know what the first one said, I just moved it from the explanation to comment page. And mine was posted immediately after it because I was chronologically the second comment made. I had no reason to wait (interestingly, you moved someone else's comment so that I was replying to it, even though it didn't exist when I posted.) Mikemk (talk) 00:41, 24 March 2016 (UTC)
I cannot see that what you say is true about moving your comment. I just checked the history and here is what I found:

This was what it looked like before my changes:
the women do not look like Megan and Hair Bun Girl to me, are they new? sorry for commenting here, but I do not have rights to create a new page, which seems to be necessary for posting the fire comment. Will move once the comment section is created.

I think they are Thelma and Louise (from the movie) given the looks of their hair -- Chichak (talk) March 23, 2016 (please sign your comments with ~~~~)

I think they're children Mikemk (talk) 15:33, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Maybe they got the truck from Black Hat's garage? Mikemk (talk) 15:34, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

I have yet to use a tire swing that was made from a worn tire (worn by the road not by swinging). From my experience, expired tires used by automobiles typically have sharp metal protruding from the rubber. This would make a dangerous tire swing. I thought landscaping (rubber mulch) and playgrounds was the preferred recycling method for used tires?--R0hrshach (talk) 15:35, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

The first one certainly looks like Hair Bun, but the second one (which in in the explanation is presented as Megan) has a somewhat curly hair. Could she be another character, perhaps? 17:05, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
This what it looked like after:
the women do not look like Megan and Hair Bun Girl to me, are they new? sorry for commenting here, but I do not have rights to create a new page, which seems to be necessary for posting the fire comment. Will move once the comment section is created.

I think they are Thelma and Louise (from the movie) given the looks of their hair -- Chichak (talk) March 23, 2016 (please sign your comments with ~~~~)
I think they're children Mikemk (talk) 15:33, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
The first one certainly looks like Hair Bun, but the second one (which in in the explanation is presented as Megan) has a somewhat curly hair. Could she be another character, perhaps? 17:05, 23 March 2016 (UTC)
As the tire comes from a truck and it's diameter is more than half the height of these small girls they are definitely kids (not that Randall could not have made adults make a swing as like in 150). Also this makes it much more funny that they both stole a car and beat up an angry adult. And now they are going all environmental after wards. So they are not Megan (which looks nothing like a curly haired girl) and also not Hair Bun Girl as it is defined that these characters are adults. There are many stories using kids and they will never represent Cueball, Megan or Ponytail etc. Those with hats are for instance never drawn small! Have thus corrected the explanation. But it still seems to miss much more on the environmental issue which is the subject/point of the comic if not the joke --Kynde (talk) 17:19, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Maybe they got the truck from Black Hat's garage? Mikemk (talk) 15:34, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

Then they would have lost the fight: 433: Journal 5! --Kynde (talk) 17:22, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

I have yet to use a tire swing that was made from a worn tire (worn by the road not by swinging). From my experience, expired tires used by automobiles typically have sharp metal protruding from the rubber. This would make a dangerous tire swing. I thought landscaping (rubber mulch) and playgrounds was the preferred recycling method for used tires?--R0hrshach (talk) 15:35, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

I think you are correct. We have one for our kids (though it sucked and we took it down again) and that was a brand new tire, but not one I think would be suitable for any car though. --Kynde (talk) 17:22, 23 March 2016 (UTC)

As can be seen

I have only moved one comment up, and that was not yours! That you did not check that there already seemed to be two comments above yours, about the appearance of the girls, doesn't mean that it would not make sense to pool all these questions and comments regarding exactly this topic together to give just one answer. And as you can see from the above I did NOT move your comments, but I moved someone else's comment, in between the first and second of your comments, to be able to reply to all four things already written about the girls (ie. 1) The women do not look like Megan and Hair Bun Girl to me, are they new? 2) I think they are Thelma and Louise (from the movie) 3) I think they're children and 4) ... a somewhat curly hair. Could she be another character?) All that was what I replied to, now possible to do in one go right beneath all four remarks. --Kynde (talk) 09:47, 25 March 2016 (UTC)
There was only one comment before mine, and it was 2 paragraphs. You moving the second half into a reply of the first half caused some of the confusion here Mikemk (talk) 06:54, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
OK now I understand, so it was not your comment I moved, but the previous comment that I split in two (that was a mistake). That you did not answer to the comment above was of course not clear since it was on the same subject. Again this, as I understand it, was caused by someone posting a comment in the explanation, and you moving it into the comments section (which was fine, but made it hard to find out who posted what.) --Kynde (talk) 12:58, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

[edit] Gardening

You mention "three links to images that did not work" in my "garden store for deer" entry. These three links all work for me; they are images I tried to upload, scaled as large as the server would allow (739x461). Somehow I can upload images but not create image pages (also the spam protection is still triggered, so creating this account seems to accomplish nothing). It's very strange that the server has stored them but won't allow anyone else to view them (after logging out, it tells me I "must be logged in to upload files" instead of displaying the images). Someone should rescue the images from wherever they reside on the server.

The "face" I referred to (the second image) is really a cluster of leaves and branches: the bottom cluster of the rightmost tree looks like a head in profile, with curly hair, an eye, a grinning mouth, and a prominent nose. The two rightmost trees started with no branches (first image), but grew several when I placed a light above them. I moved the light so the face wouldn't be destroyed and tried to grow branches on the lower trunks. The third image is essentially the same as what you uploaded today.

Regarding Megan's office furniture: I'd actually pruned her second wand whenever it appeared, and then the bird took its place. .42 (talk) 15:29, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Hi .42 First I think it take a few days (three) before you are allowed to create new pages to fight off spam boots that we have had problems with. I cannot see you images I get the following message:
Internal Server Error
This file (13xmd97bimg0.n2wbws.5455.png) doesn't belong to the current user.
Cool that you have logged in as a user, although poor name ;-) On the other hand if you are a fan of Hitchhikers Guide then I guess it would be cool enough by the way. I'm happy to see that I finally get a chance to prune some of my gardens after several upsets since the comic came out. If I can help you with the images let me know. Maybe you can post them somewhere else and I can find upload them for you? Kynde (talk) 15:34, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
I'll try to upload tomorrow, then. I don't know where the server found the .42 IP address — that isn't my address! It's really weird that it chose this number. .42 (talk) 16:18, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

Have you seen libra's purple light gardens? .42 (talk) 22:58, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

No I had not. I like the stilt on platform up in tree. I did not know this could happen. Kynde (talk) 10:24, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

[edit] NASA versus the press

Hi Kynde. I'm afraid I disagree. It seems pretty clear to me that the question about the tip-off comes from NASA. I've added a topic to the talk page, where I explain my reasoning, and where this should be discussed if you still disagree. Thanks! Garik (talk) 16:52, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

Yes I still disagree. To me it seems like a continuation of the conference and it is now the press to speak. And given that I knew Juno to be related to Jupiter but not that she was the daughter of Saturn (and given the reason for the naming in the real world) I would not say that the name in any way would lead anyone to take it as a hint for going to Saturn. But great to discuss it. Will post this on the talk page too. --Kynde (talk) 17:21, 6 July 2016 (UTC)

[edit] 1712: Politifact

Hi, I'm the BOT and I'm BORG...

...nevertheless your enhancement to the transcript was too much. And I think your enhancements to the explain section is also overrunning the target.

But I just only did revert the transcript. --Dgbrt (talk) 20:19, 28 July 2016 (UTC)

HI BORG... :/
I Highly disagree with your changes.
A transcript serves several functions:
  1. To make it possible to find out what any text/characters reads, even if it is hard to read in the comic.
  2. To make a description of what happens in the images. This has two purposes:
    1. So people with eye disabilities can find out what the comic is about. So here a full description of the comic is needed apart from the text.
    2. So it is possible to search the comic for info on the content, like a woman with a hat with a white tag.
  3. Finally it is great if the transcript represents the way it is written in the comic as close as possible including colors (which should also be described in the text for those that cannot see them selves). So tables, colors and formatting is fine. If the text then is harder to read it is possible to copy paste it.
I can see there may have been a bit of explanation in that I wrote about what Megan did in the previous panel, but that is not enough to just undo the whole thing.
I will reinsert the transcript and if you disagree then lets discuss either on that comic or in a general fora on what a transcript should contain.
Regards, just Kynde. --Kynde (talk) 16:16, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

[edit] Follow-Up on that "Random Chat"

Hey dude! Uh... wow this is awkward. You said hi to me in the random chat on my user page. I said hi. Then we never said anything else to each other again. xD --JayRulesXKCD (talk) 16:07, 25 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi Jay. Not so awkward. :-) I mean you just said thanks, and thus did not really initiate any chat. Do you have anything in mind? Like something to be improved here on explain? Something larger maybe that could need discussion. Or anything else... Problem is of course that when I chat to you here, you do not get any reminder like when I chat on your page and visa versa. So I will make a post on your page that I have answered here... --Kynde (talk) 19:04, 25 October 2016 (UTC)
Well, by that, I just meant a simple random chat. Like a "hey! how are you doing? that's nice... what do you like to do in your free time..?" kind of chat. --JayRulesXKCD (talk) 14:18, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
Ah well, I guess I would not really like to have such a chat on these pages, so sorry that I misunderstood you. ;-) --Kynde (talk) 14:19, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
It's alright.. also.... HAPPY HALLOWEEN! :D --JayRulesXKCD (talk) 14:41, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
Wow... it's (almost) a whole year since then. Time sure flies by, huh? --JayRulesXKCD what's up? 12:34, 9 October 2017 (UTC)
Yes that is true. Actually more since the first contact ;-) Haven't been so active the last half year. :-) --Kynde (talk) 13:22, 11 October 2017 (UTC)

[edit] 1751: Movie Folder

Assuming that Black Hat only has good movies is rather absurd, as there's not a shred of evidence to support this. Especially since this is Black Hat we're talking about. Therefore, there's no evidence that Titanic 98 is about the ship hitting the reef, and therefore, the calculations about stacking 97 ships have no relevance. -- 15:06, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

Since this is relevant to a specific comic, I suggest that you just leave this comment on that specific comic's discussion board. Thank you. --JayRulesXKCD (talk) 15:13, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
Yes that is true Jay. Anyway there is reason to believe that Black Hat either thinks or teases Cueball with his movies, and thus he suggest that the movies he has are god. Also the other comment he makes suggest this. So I think there is a lot of evidence that this movie 98 is one in the series of movies where Titanic hits the reef of older Titanics. --Kynde (talk) 14:05, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
Cueball names 7 movies, Black Hat replies to 4 of those. He has definitively positive things to say about 2 of those, and simply states information about another. In that context, there's no reason to assume his comment about the Titanic series should be interpreted as a claim that he considers Titanic 98 to be 'good'. And with only 2 of the other 6 known movies in his collection being stated as 'good', that's clearly not "a lot of evidence" that Titanic 98 is 'good'. -- 21:24, 3 November 2016 (UTC)
Well we disagree on that then. If the explanation should be changed on the basis of this discussion it should be moved to the relevant discussion page. If it is the same person who wrote from both IP .81 and .86 you could move it there your self. Feel free to include my replies, but leave out Jays as that has nothing to do with the discussion. --Kynde (talk) 09:56, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
Done. (Yes, .81 and .86 were me) -- 16:57, 4 November 2016 (UTC)

[edit] Transcript TLDR;

  • I got so tired of Dgbrt's negative comments (TLDR;), that I have collapsed them here below. Fell free to read them if you really wish by clicking: --Kynde (talk) 22:00, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

Please stop to write this massive texts into the transcript. Have a look at the discus at the last (1798) comic. And also think about that you are the only one who is entering those massive explains perhaps also nobody does read. LESS is often MORE! --Dgbrt (talk) 11:43, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Maybe. I was under the impression that they where both there for those that had problems with vision, and also so you could search on something you remembered from a comic and find it using that tool. --Kynde (talk) 12:27, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
Even visually impaired persons don't like it (see 1798). And TLDR means "too long; didn't read", just in case. You should consider this. Reading the transcript should not take much longer than identifying the features from picture itself. Every spoken text and a short description what is shown should be suffice. At 1799: Bad Map Projection: Time Zones even not every county must be mentioned; showing differences to a regular map projection should be enough because everybody knows a regular world map. --Dgbrt (talk) 12:44, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
I completely disagree about only writing spoken text. The transcript is intended to make it possible to read all text in the image not just spoken text. It is often difficult to read all text, and also if people misread it or do not notice it by looking at the image, it will be there to find in the transcript, especially for those visually impaired. And what you said means there should be no transcript for the current comic 1799 where you linked to this discussion from. By the way I know what TLDR means, and also did not ask about it, if you noticed! I have seen it used here before, probably regarding something you wrote! ;-) --Kynde (talk) 13:33, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
I agree with Dgbrt. Elektrizikekswerk (talk) 12:50, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
I expect mainly people who agree comes here, as people who are not troubled by it, might not care enough. (talk) 13:33, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
The first criticism was done by a visually impaired person (Zetfr 23:11, 13 February 2017 (UTC)) at Talk:1798:_Box_Plot. That was the reason for me to start this discussion.--Dgbrt (talk) 13:52, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
Yes thanks for pointing that out. I had not read his comments when I replied before. --Kynde (talk) 14:13, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
Another reason for detailed transcripts with image descriptions is that sometimes people have misunderstood what is in the image, and then a transcript can be used to make sure what is there. --Kynde (talk) 13:33, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
All that may go into the explain section; it doesn't belong to the transcript.--Dgbrt (talk) 13:52, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
Yes maybe, but will the visibly impaired not also be annoyed about it there. Then maybe in a trivia section if there is need. I will try that for 1798 I think. --Kynde (talk) 14:13, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Maybe not known to all. In the past Randall provided a transcript on each comic. It is in a hidden div-tag. Then something went wrong and the transcript actually belonged to an older comic. Right now there is no transcript anymore. But have look at this example (shown on for

[[Two children, a girl and a boy, are talking to an adult woman as they walk away from her. The boy has a bucket.]] 
Girl: Me and Jack are going up the hill to fetch a pail of water. 
[[The children have left; the woman calls after them.]] 
Woman: Okay, have fun! [[The woman stands and thinks.]] 
Woman: ... wait. What the heck is going on with the hydrology around here? 
{{Title text: Jill and Jack began to frack. The oil boosts their town. But fractures make the bedrock shake and Jack came tumbling down.}}

--Dgbrt (talk) 15:07, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Yes I tried to include this on explain xkcd by making a description of it on the xkcd page some weeks ago. Transcript are of course even more important now that there are no longer transcripts on xkcd. The first problem arose after the Hoverboard comic where the transcript for all comics after that was shifted two and later three comics from the one they belonged to. The last of those shifted transcript ended with 1674 whose transcript was found three comics later at 1677. But also comics with transcript needs a better transcript here on xkcd, to include other written text, and small important details, as well as we are using given names for characters which Randall has never used (or only rarely uses). Actually Randall has once made a direct link to Explain xkcd for a better transcript. Alas there was not transcript until this year, where I made it: See this trivia under Payloads.--Kynde (talk) 16:16, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

I'm glad this discussion is finally taking place. I raised the point a while back on the community portal but nobody noticed. I tried again on 1795 but attention had already moved on to the next comic... Seems I got it right this time ;-) Different people may have different uses for the transcripts. For me, being visually impaired, the right level of detail is that of Randall's official transcripts. It should include every written word in the comic (spoken, printed, in captions, etc.) and just enough information on what's going on to "get it", but not how things are drawn. E.g. "Cueball is talking to Megan", not "Cueball, on the left, has his right arm extended towards Megan who is sitting on a chair" (unless the chair somehow plays a part in the story). Imagine you're talking on the phone: "hey, I saw a great comic this morning, here is how it goes..." and then "tell" yor friend the joke, rather than "describe" the comic. BTW, I think this also serves your goal of being able to search old comics for a specific element. The element you'll remember will be something important to the comic's story, not a graphical detail such as a character's position or the number of lines drawn around his hand to indicate movement. Anyway, thanks for the good work!! Zetfr 16:18, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the input, especially to Zetfr. I had not seen your comment on 1795 or in the community portal. I'll have a look, and thanks to Dgbrt for letting me know about your latest comment. I will try to keep out the details in the transcript. For me personally I have often been looking for a specific thing, like searching for the comic where Cueball stands on a chair with a sword or rotates in an office chair. As I could not remember any lines spoken, and because those making the transcript had not mentioned either spinning office chair, or sword, I could not search my way to them even in this explain page. I have found them later, but by chance. And then I put in the details. Maybe I have gotten carried away, so sorry about that. I think the details somehow belongs, but if that should be in the trivia, or at the bottom of the transcript...? I'm not sure, which was also why I put it in the transcript. Being the one who makes the most edits and also hard work (large tables, and huge transcripts) I'm happy Zetfr likes the page :-) --Kynde (talk) 16:09, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
I have changed the transcript for 1795 putting the details into a subesection of the transcript. --Kynde (talk) 16:38, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
Hi Kynde, I still disagree with this subsection solution. You don't have to repaint the picture by text! If a detail is important for understanding a pun it has to be mentioned in the transcript itself; otherwise it is useless and oversized. E.g.: Nobody wants to know -- and wont remember later -- if there are two, three, four, or five sound symbols and how they are painted. The single word "SOUND" describes all. And please consider: Nobody reads those long texts. LESS is often MORE!.--Dgbrt (talk) 18:04, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
Hi Dgbrt. We can movie it into a trivia. I think some of it is relevant, and sometimes it is hard to find out which part will be searched for later. But I guess we two alone would end in a ½-½ for this discussion so far... --Kynde (talk) 19:41, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
I completely agree with Dgbrt. The transcript should say *what* Randall wants to tell us, not *how* he tells it. In most cases this should also work to let you search for details you remember. In your example, Cueball holding a sword is certainly important to the comic's point, so it should be mentioned in the transcript. But the length and position of the sword are irrelevant, and probably not what you'll search for. Obviously, there is no hard rule to decide what should or shouldn't go into the transcript, it's a matter of personal judgment and common sense, but I think we can all agree on general guidelines. Regarding the "Detailed image description" section tested in 1795, I have no problem with that. I'm not sure it will ever be useful to anyone, but it won't do any harm either, so if you're willing to put in the extra work, go for it. Zetfr 12:17, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
Thanks Zetfr. About the extra details, they could be put into a section where you had to press to see the extra details. I do not know if a reader will pass over that. For instance like I have done with explanation for several categories like Category:New Year --Kynde (talk) 17:12, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

Nice find for 1461:_Payloads, I didn't now Randall refers to this wiki. According to that hint was entered between 2015-01-25 and 2015-02-07 and refers to the entire wiki page, not only "our" transcript. So it's absolutely NOT embarrassing as you wrote in the trivia section. I'm setting an incomplete tag for the transcript and trivia section and edit it tomorrow (18th Feb). I will let you know what I've done and why. Stay tuned...--Dgbrt (talk) 20:59, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

The rework on 1461:_Payloads is done. But I didn't remove the incomplete tag. That's up to you. Like Zetfr I'm not sure it will ever be useful to anyone, but the larger description on a separate page would be acceptable to me. Furthermore I've done some investigations on Randalls links to this wiki and put it together in a new category: Category:Explain_mentioned_by_Randall.--Dgbrt (talk) 12:57, 18 February 2017 (UTC)
Thanks both for the "nice find" and for reworking Payloads, and especially for the new category. Great find. I will look at the other examples soon. --Kynde (talk) 17:12, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

Many thanks by me for this positive and productive discussion. It seems there are some more former transcripts which need a rework. I personally will focus on checking all the JSON-scripts I downloaded today (1799 at all; ofcourse 404 doesn't exist; and exactly seven contain the word "explainxkcd"). I will write a small script to put them into a human readable form and present it somewhere here for further use. Stay tuned... --Dgbrt (talk) 17:45, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

Thanks Dbgrt. And really cool how you made that new category. --Kynde (talk) 19:14, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

[edit] xkcd page and subpages

You moved some contented into subpages which doesn't make it better. There is no need to describe in Design of a layout everybody can see. The lemma "Design" requires just a few lines of text but you repeat all the "Content". And just for interest: Before the redirect to https was in place (a few weeks ago) there was language specific advertising for the shop. I'm looking forward for a better and more compressed form on all of this. Any suggestions?--Dgbrt (talk) 14:07, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Hi Dgbrt. My reason for making this page, is that the links, the comics, the headline, the byline, the warning etc. all changes with time, and I would like users of this site to have easy access to earlier links. Just like we have a category for the fotter comics (which I by the way did not make, but enjoyed, because I never thought absolute that he must have had them before all those five comics had been published and that they thus must have changed). So I thought similar things would be nice to have for changes to the layout and hence I decided to describe it. Maybe it was too much, but I like to have the archive links to changes. And since I had already done lots of work on this, I just copied all the new text to another page, to not delete it. And yes as I have said on Davidy's page I should not have put it on the xkcd page to begin with. But when I started I had no idea it would end up soooo long. Waiting to hear your comments on this info, before going further with suggestions. But thanks for asking. --Kynde (talk) 18:16, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
All those pages are on my agenda; your edit or not. I don't care. But I will not delete any content without an agreement. I will present something in a sandbox at my user page. You are welcome there (not before tomorrow). And consider, this wiki is not a backup for (talk) 19:56, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
I think this wiki is for explaining xkcd, not just the comics. I believe you agree as I have seen on Davidy's talk page. And major changes or important revisions to the main page is important in my opinion. For instance I'm sad to see that the xkcd warning has gone from xkcd, and think it is important to let it be know it was there for many years. Where to do so? And how to find it if you did not know about it? There need to be a place that links to it, directly or indirectly through the xkcd page. I look forward to see you sand castle. :-) Please leave a comment here when you have something you wish me to see, with a link. Regarding you answer to my comment, I meant that I would hear what you had to say before I came with suggestions. Not that you should not do anything before I made one. --Kynde (talk) 20:08, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

[edit] I am still calm...

...why I shouldn't? You see things inspiring others to see more things... (<- you would wrote 500 words for this) and you are still not able to put the pun on the top of an explanation. Keep your focus on the pun, not on every Million possibilities behind the drawing. And you can be sure I will have an eye on this because this is NOT "dreamingxkcd".--Dgbrt (talk) 23:15, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

Well I'm not! --Kynde (talk) 21:09, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

[edit] Aggressive edits

While I was talking to others about the explanation and the transcript for more than 24 hours you need only one hour to change everything that was discussed before. Again all red is yours: 1810: Chat Systems changes. Editors[citation needed], mainly not me, don't like it when all their work is changed after you finished your edits. Please respect other editors! --Dgbrt (talk) 21:50, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

I do not change everything. I add. But we are obviously not going to agree on this. I would prefer not to discuss with you. How do yo know what the others like or not. In the discussions we have had I found more against your way of communication than against my edits. --Kynde (talk) 21:57, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
Massive changes and you call it add??? So tell me your adds and explain how all they other changes happened. I will add a sentence to the comic discussion because it's senseless here.--Dgbrt (talk) 22:14, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
Yes it is. And it is a real shame that you have decided to know how this wiki should be. Hope that Davidy soon tells one of us to back off. If it is me then I will have to take it into account. So far he has only had nice things to say to me about my work here, which is not what I have seen regarding your work. Have you read the other users that calls your tone negative/aggressive or even worse? I have really tried to speak nicely to you, but you never seems to accept any edits I do. --Kynde (talk) 22:21, 14 March 2017 (UTC)
Your "Citation needed" template add to my text is just one example for what I call aggressive. Hiding four paragraphs is an other.--Dgbrt (talk) 23:09, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

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