Editing Talk:2926: Doppler Effect

<!--Please sign your posts with ~~~~ and don't delete this text. New comments should be added at the bottom.-->
Honestly, this is one of my favorite ones yet, [[User:Apollo11|Apollo11]] ([[User talk:Apollo11|talk]]) 18:21, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
:I'm not always a big fan of Miss Lenhart comics, but I agree this one is good. [[User:Barmar|Barmar]] ([[User talk:Barmar|talk]]) 18:39, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
I think there might be some confusion in the explanation. It suggests that red shift occurs because of space expansion, not because of relative motion between the light source and observer. My understanding is that there IS relative motion between the light source and observer BECAUSE of expanding space. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.22.151|172.68.22.151]] 19:54, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
:Edit - There appears to be a "just" in there that I missed, changing the meaning of the sentence somewhat. Never mind. [[Special:Contributions/172.68.22.151|172.68.22.151]] 19:58, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
::My understanding is that there is relative motion between the galaxies, but there is also redshift caused by the expansion of space while the light was traveling, which would occur even if the galaxies were at rest.  And IIUC for most galaxies this is the dominant effect -- the Doppler shift caused by the motion of galaxies when the light was emitted is small, but the cosmological redshift caused by the light traveling for a long time is large. [[User:Vyzen|Vyzen]] ([[User talk:Vyzen|talk]]) 21:54, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
:::As far as I have understood you could use both methods and get the same result. The speed with which distant galaxies are receding is directly proportional to the expansion of the space between them. Thus whether you look at the speed and say then they must be thus redshifted, or the space they have traveled through that have expanded, the calculated red shift it the same. For objects closer the relative velocities towards or away from each other would have a significant effect but not for very distant objects. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 11:39, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

The bit about the Doppler effect being similar to a bullet fired from a moving car is simply incorrect.  That's vector addition of velocities.  Sound traveling from a source is going to travel at the speed of sound in the medium, and the only addition of velocities would be to the extent that the car is moving the air around it.  Also, the Doppler effect doesn't make sounds louder, that's simply a function of the distance between you and the source changing, independent of velocity.  Edited the text accordingly. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.42.213|172.70.42.213]] 20:00, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
:Although firing an automatic firearm from a moving car can make a pretty decent analogy, as the bullets will pass a person the car is moving toward more frequently or a person the car is moving away from less frequently. Though I think drive-by shootings are probably not the ideal metaphor to use in classrooms. Perhaps a nerf gun? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.246.148|172.69.246.148]] 20:38, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
This comic seems to be poor nerd sniping for explainxkcd to get into a long explanation why galaxies are red ... --[[Special:Contributions/172.70.247.172|172.70.247.172]] 20:08, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

In the UK, the primary emergency-vehicle (police, ambulance/paramedic, fire, coastguard, anything else {{w|Emergency vehicle equipment in the United Kingdom|similarly official}}; for road/off-road/air/water vehicles of all kinds) flashing light tends to be blue. There may be alternating reds too, according to vintage, but currently blue lights are the main feature (and 'battenburgs', on marked vehicles, according to the nature of the service involved). Non-emergency vehicles' 'beacons' would be amber, on anything underspeed/stopped/extraordinary on the carriageway (road-sweepers, flatbed car-recovery, exceptional load carriers/escorts) and I think green and red flashers are common for construction site traffic. Interestingly, the other day I saw a police car ''and'' an unmarked response car (going to the same incident, both flashing their blues), three ambulances (none obviously going to same incident, and only two with blues) and a fire-engine (not flashing, probably going back to base). Only one of them (an ambulance) was blaring its respective siren, though. I believe emergency drivers are required to use them sparingly/judiciously, rather than just put the blues'n'twos on and barge through. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.172|172.70.90.172]] 21:06, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
:Blue lights are actually common in most of Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_vehicle_lighting#Usage_by_country. The light of emergency vehicles is technically also effected by the Doppler Effect, though this is barely measurable at typical driving speeds. --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.160.32|172.71.160.32]] 09:36, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

It appears to be sheer coincidence that sirens were relevant to the discussion, as Miss Lenhart does not actually seem to know that the same phenomenon is at work. --[[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.129|172.70.211.129]] 22:04, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

I’m an EMT and can explain the button that makes it go PEW PEW! The siren has quite a few different settings with different noise patterns. The noise patterns are chosen based on the surroundings. The default is a T1, the least obtrusive. You use that one on long straight roads. Coming up to an intersection, you would switch to T2, which is more noticeable and lets them know you’re close to the intersection before they can see you. Once you’re crossing the intersection, you switch to T3, the loudest and most irritating patterns, so the chance of someone not noticing you and causing an accident is lowest. There are a couple different patterns for each tier. The sirens are controlled by either dials or buttons (and some touchscreens that I hate) and there’s also a button to make the siren go off at a set tone or pattern for as long as you hold it down.  [[User:Lathgaertha|Lathgaertha]] ([[User talk:Lathgaertha|talk]]) 22:50, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

: The three tiers are described in this video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=salqpgFuOZA. And the sounds can be heard on this video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFj0q37uvxo.  [[User:Orion205|Orion205]] ([[User talk:Orion205|talk]]) 01:20, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

re: "Pew pew" still unexplained. Note that Miss Lenhart actually says "pyeew" not "pew". It's most likely not a reference to shooting, but to a siren signal that (to my knowledge) is particular to US ambulances. Sound effect in question at ~0:18 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5bwBS27A1g here]. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.46.241|172.70.46.241]] 07:52, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
@@ Line 13: / Line 13: @@
 In the UK, the primary emergency-vehicle (police, ambulance/paramedic, fire, coastguard, anything else {{w|Emergency vehicle equipment in the United Kingdom|similarly official}}; for road/off-road/air/water vehicles of all kinds) flashing light tends to be blue. There may be alternating reds too, according to vintage, but currently blue lights are the main feature (and 'battenburgs', on marked vehicles, according to the nature of the service involved). Non-emergency vehicles' 'beacons' would be amber, on anything underspeed/stopped/extraordinary on the carriageway (road-sweepers, flatbed car-recovery, exceptional load carriers/escorts) and I think green and red flashers are common for construction site traffic. Interestingly, the other day I saw a police car ''and'' an unmarked response car (going to the same incident, both flashing their blues), three ambulances (none obviously going to same incident, and only two with blues) and a fire-engine (not flashing, probably going back to base). Only one of them (an ambulance) was blaring its respective siren, though. I believe emergency drivers are required to use them sparingly/judiciously, rather than just put the blues'n'twos on and barge through. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.172|172.70.90.172]] 21:06, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
 :Blue lights are actually common in most of Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_vehicle_lighting#Usage_by_country. The light of emergency vehicles is technically also effected by the Doppler Effect, though this is barely measurable at typical driving speeds. --[[Special:Contributions/172.71.160.32|172.71.160.32]] 09:36, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
-::Yes also in Denmark they use blue lights. Red light are all around already, so not so good using that to make a difference. Typical US :-p --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 11:43, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
 It appears to be sheer coincidence that sirens were relevant to the discussion, as Miss Lenhart does not actually seem to know that the same phenomenon is at work. --[[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.129|172.70.211.129]] 22:04, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
@@ Line 22: / Line 21: @@
 re: "Pew pew" still unexplained. Note that Miss Lenhart actually says "pyeew" not "pew". It's most likely not a reference to shooting, but to a siren signal that (to my knowledge) is particular to US ambulances. Sound effect in question at ~0:18 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5bwBS27A1g here]. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.46.241|172.70.46.241]] 07:52, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
-This comic has no colors... But the title text makes note of using a colored emoji... Are we agreeing that the comic should still not be listed as one using colors? (I think that should be restricted to the main comic). --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 11:44, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
-With recent new discoveries by James Webb Space Telescope of very old galaxies that shouldn't have time to form, the theory of tired light is making a comeback. It's still far from mainstream, but Miss Lenhart can actually be on to something when she states we don't know why the redshift. {{unsigned ip|162.158.110.193|12:11, 30 April 2024}}