Talk:2960: Organ Meanings

how is thymus formed 172.70.85.102 07:00, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

It grows from seed.172.69.194.97 12:23, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

You think Randall might have made this one as a ploy to have explain xkcd educate him on the organs and metaphors mentioned? 162.158.146.33 07:59, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Why is 'Liver' so high up on the metaphor scale? The only one I can think of is 'lily-livered', which doesn't appear to make much sense at all. On the other hand, I'd have 'Spleen' nearer the top, and 'Tongue' fairly high up as well. 172.70.162.185 08:06, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Agreed; personally I’d have liver and tongue switch places, and I’d guess the one who added silver-tongued and biting one’s tongue would probably agree also. But that might be because I understand the biological function of a liver better than the average person does. 172.70.210.5 08:21, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Are those really metaphors, though? 162.158.40.152 09:24, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

They aren't, or at least not metaphors to the tongue. Just done an edit, before having read this, to remove the visibility of "silver tongue" (a tongue that is metaphorically as silver... or maybe even quicksilver) and a "bitten tongue" (the tongue as if restrained by biting). Though there are other forms, the metaphor to biological function must be of the general "it is the tongue of the <something else>" type, maybe such as a tongue of lava or the tongue of an oil-can (one being an extending appendage, the other additionally being a contact depositor of liquid - though not always consistent in application).

Something can more easily be understood as the metaphorical heart/nerves/spine/etc of something, and we also have a good understanding of what the originals do. A sewage treatment plant can be considered the kidneys of a town (arguably more understood than a liver of one, for example, so I'd have personally switched the two), but it gets more complex with some of them. In the case of the appendix, we pretty much only know (in lay-use) that it's a spare fleshy bit that might or might not have any use, so the metaphorical 'equivalent biological function' of a "town's 'appendix'" is probably more understood than a body's actual appendix, for most people, the opposite of the situation with metaphorical/actual tongues. 172.70.91.64 10:06, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Your understanding of metaphors is... unique. A "silver tongue" certainly is a tongue-based metaphor; we're referring to someone's manner of speech as their "tongue". -- Collapsinghrung (talk) (please sign your comments with ~~~~)

From my perspective, that's a tongue-targetting metaphor. "He has a tongue of silver" (in this case "tongue" is a metonym of "manner of talking", not a metaphor). Your understanding of what the tongue refers to is different from metaphor/simile, etc, as it is the thing (the talking) that is refered to. It's the silverness that's an metaphorical element. Or, like "To bite one's tongue", having become an established idiom. 172.70.86.145 16:46, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

The one I think of is "What am I chopped Liver". Though according to google that is usually a Jewish metaphor (which I am) 162.158.158.103 (talk) (please sign your comments with ~~~~)

Liver has medieval English metaphors for bravery too, but afaik usually in the context of weak-liver = cowardly; e.g. lily-livered. 172.69.130.19 14:25, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Euch ist wohl ne Laus über die Leber gelaufen! (German proverb, "=someone angered you?!") 172.71.160.115 07:12, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm not convinced that 'Metaphor meaning' is going to work as a column in the table - several of these have multiple metaphors associated, often with varied and little-related meanings.172.70.160.249 12:20, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

I just added the line about anatomical metaphors varying from culture to culture. Would people like to include any examples of culturally variable metaphors? I think it was Jonathan Safran Foer's "Everything Is Illuminated" where an Eastern European character kept shouting out "spleen". 172.70.46.172 12:58, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

One example off the top of my head - and might need a proper reference to add - is the common use of Kidneys in metaphor. Afaik, the most common-slang in NA for that is "ow my kidneys" as in "I laughed so hard, my kidneys hurt now." Meanwhile, in many East Asian cultures, references to the 'kidneys' is most commonly used as an euphemism for sexual performance due to the connection to traditional medicine, where having sex is seen as 'exerting/damaging the kidneys.' E.g., feeding someone food 'good for the kidneys,' references to 'oh, your kidneys have been overexerted lately,' 'are your kidneys okay,' etc. 172.69.214.38 14:05, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Kidneys are also often referred to, typically facetiously, as a high value object one can sell in a pinch. 172.69.140.184 08:44, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

I think tongue is placed strangely low on the metaphor axis. Usage of "tongue" to mean language, conversation, or other speech (i.e. "mother tongue," "silver-tongued," "speaking in tongues") is well-established. Secondly, I also feel kidneys should be higher with the added metaphorical definition of value, as in "you'd have to sell a kidney." 172.69.140.184 08:44, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Tongue (as per language) is a metonym, not a metaphor. And other examples I'm seeing are verging upon similes (also different from metaphors). People seem to be confused about this, but possibly also Randall (hard to tell, as he doesn't really give examples, just his graphic conclusions). 172.70.162.185 09:48, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Added a poscript paragraph to try to cover the scope of these contentions between y'all. I (hurridly) provided examples for each linguistic form, but I might not have gone with the best ones (for example, I was going to add such as "a brain like a computer", at the appropriate point, but then realised that "brain" wasn't even featured in the comic so obviously better rhetorical examples could be provided instead/as well. Bear in mind that different literary backgrounds might understand the references as different rhetoric devices, especially once a phrase becomes idiomatic in its own right. 172.70.90.176 13:37, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Bodily fluids (humors) had the same overlap, with early doctors thinking that fluids influenced moods (giving us terms like "sanguine", "phlegmatic", "bilious"). Could someone add a section about that? 172.70.47.23 15:28, 18 July 2024 (UTC)

Your table in the article says that "appendix" has a metaphorical meaning of "uselessness", but I don't think this is true. Can you find a dictionary that has a figurative sense? Wiktionary for example does not [1]. I think Randall may be a little confused about what is a metaphor, and may have intended "appendix" here in the sense of an extra part added to a book or academic paper etc. 172.70.85.138 08:05, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

I have, albeit rarely, heard people refer to something as 'a mere appendix to x '. However, I suspect the metaphor in those cases is more in reference to appendix as a part of a book, rather than a biological organ.172.70.90.94 09:55, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

Both biological and bibliographical uses derive, in their own way, from the Latin root term for "to hang upon(/off of)", as an added on element to something else. And most 'metaphorical' use does not deviate too far from this concept so could be considered a reference to both (or neither), according to the intent of the one who invokes it or the perception of one who receives such an invoked reference. 172.70.90.176 13:37, 19 July 2024 (UTC)