Talk:3251: Time Machine Conversation

Spoilers for boats. 64.201.132.210 21:25, 27 May 2026 (UTC)

The barman says "Sorry, we don't serve time-travellers". A time-traveller walks into a bar. 81.179.199.253 21:31, 27 May 2026 (UTC)

Before explanation/transcript --OceanLord (talk) 21:38, 27 May 2026 (UTC)

Cool I’ve never been early enough to see an explanation-less comic also help me I’ve never commented before did I mess it up :( 73.148.10.13 (talk) 21:47, 27 May 2026 (please sign your comments with ~~~~)

You messed up slightly -- you forgot to sign your comment with 4 tildes. Barmar (talk) 21:48, 27 May 2026 (UTC)

Like this tilde tilde tilde tilde 82.13.184.33 (talk) 09:02, 28 May 2026 (please sign your comments with ~~~~)

(That's not necessarily helping...)

If you can't find it on your keyboard (or it's awkward... I have to tap a bit of my on-screen keyboard twice to get to the 'secondary set of other characters' layout that features it), you can copy-and-paste it from somewhere else (hmmm... It is usually is mentioned in a comment at the top of a recent Talk page -- edit: and it still is... sorry, went looking for when it vanished, but it never had ...must have been sticky scrolling that stopped me panning up enough to see it... Anyway, it's the "Please sign your posts with" thing at the top of the page. You can copy-paste the four tildes from there, if anyone ever finds it easiest to do that for any reason).

Or, click on the penultimate button in the button-bar immediately above this (as I write) editing window. Has a scrawly 'signature'-like image in it (like the Bold button has a bold B, italics has an italic I, etc) and it will give you "<hyphen><hyphen><tilde><tilde><tilde><tilde>" wherever your cursor is in this textbox (assuming you don't have a custom signature, as a registered user, the effective text of that may appear instead). The hyphens/etc are't strictly important, though a newline starting with two hyphens used to be a standard "this line is the start of a signature" marker in more civilised days. But I'll leave them in here, so you can see how they precede the (more vital, for conversation readability) who-I-am and when-I-posted information that the four-tildes generates for me. --82.132.238.245 12:23, 28 May 2026 (UTC)

It was necessarily not helping ;o) 82.13.184.33 13:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polynesian_navigation Sebastian --88.217.185.170 21:50, 27 May 2026 (UTC)

i think it should be "this page was created in the past" not "this page was created in the future". im changing that (its more like present here cause its 22:15, 27 May 2026 (UTC))

Aren't they all created in the past by the time we read it? Barmar (talk) 22:22, 27 May 2026 (UTC)

It could have been created in the future and then sent back in time. 82.13.184.33 15:07, 28 May 2026 (UTC)

"'North Star'? I guess I'm not familiar with that. What's a 'north'? ... Primary direction, you say? So it's the direction the sun appears every morning?" 2604:2D80:AB87:B700:5456:ED28:D284:B682 23:08, 27 May 2026 (UTC)

They would have been quite familiar with the fact that the Little Bear remained in the same direction all night every night. Though, to avoid confusing them, remember that during the Iron Age, the polar point in the sky would have been closer to Kochab (Beta Ursae Minoris) rather than Polaris (Alpha Ursae Minoris) RegularSizedGuy (talk) 03:43, 28 May 2026 (UTC)

Welll... The Little Bear spun every night, around the (at any given time in history) polar point. Any small amount of interest in the patterns and (if patient, noticable) motion of the stars in a suitably clear night sky would reveal the roughly marked (or rather more unmarked, for those more antipodean) hub of the 'spinning firmament' to which everything (except birds, clouds, 'hairy stars', shooting stars, 'wanderers' and of course Sol and Luna... but pretty much everything else!) seems to be stuck to.

The path of the Sun and the Moon around (or at least close to!) the ecliptic is more important for its seasonal variation. Where the Sun is rising/setting (depending upon your interpretation, either of these could be your prime focus), ever-cycling across the year, is more a time clue (for a given location) than an accurate direction (and possibly latitude) clue when trying to derive your culture's core elements of navigation.

Which is not to say that Sun-chasing (or waiting to see where it popped up, then going that way) might not be part of your over-the-horizon navigation planning, but you had to be wise to the fact that sometimes that would lead you more towards one or othe tropic line than it might do the equator (if you're between the tropics - or varying degrees closer to eventually spiralling in towards the equator if you're currently beyond either tropic).

The presence/absence of some asterisms (either seeing if they appear over the horizon or knowing whether or not they should be in the current night sky at all) might usefully substitute for, or enhance, the concept of the annually changing solar-sunset/-sunrise position, with enough aquired (experienced/learnt) knowledge of these cycles, and clearly it (and posssibly other paleolithic lifehacks) worked well enough for enough proto-polynesian families to make enough successful journeys across enough of the Pacific to have settled so many places so far apart, and likely was also useful for far less expansive trade-routes in other parts of the world where sailing (or walking) in roughlybtue right direction was good enough most of the time, so long as you weren't unlucky and/or perhaps knew how to recognise and avoid particularly troublesome coastlines/etc.

But each culture's travellers probably made use of whatever they had at hand, whether it was lodestones or oases or just following the tracks/milemarkers laid between neighbouring settlements by those already established there. 82.132.238.245 12:23, 28 May 2026 (UTC)

People had been tracking the sun for thousands of years - building megaliths and celebrating solstices, I am sure they had concepts of direction. Lodestones are noted in Greek writing and may have been known earlier. Long distance navigation was also solved in the Bronze Age, in fact you cannot have bronze without shipping tin or copper from one of the few known mines. Definitely no more than a C for History. 92.19.86.70 06:39, 28 May 2026 (UTC)

Surely they would understand the concept of things, like food, being spoiled? Dogman15 (talk) 00:16, 28 May 2026 (UTC)

I honestly think there should be a category for things common now yet ridiculous then. I've seen 4 comics with that theme already, and there must be more GSLikesCats307 (talk) 09:37, 28 May 2026 (UTC)

The concept of the spoiler probably would only be relevant to someone with a recreational viewpoint and relatively free access to information, something that wouldn't have been common, or even possible, until recent times, except perhaps in limited circumstances with those who were very wealthy and influential. In other cases, such as with the example in the comic, such information would have been highly desirable to pretty much anyone with the ability to understand it and utilize it, and instead it would have been a Disruptive innovation. SammyChips (talk) 16:35, 28 May 2026 (UTC)

Why is the explanation clearly written by an LLM? Half the explanation has nothing to do with anything the comic is about, like time travel paradoxes are not involved at all. 2A00:23C6:AB94:B601:BFF5:69F3:97C5:4571 22:05, 28 May 2026 (UTC)

I think you're mistaking authorship by a (non-coordinating) committee of opinionated and self-identifying 'experts' (I would include myself in that group, BTW) for an authorship by some ineffably complex random-text-generator that has merely been prodded to try to produce patterns of apparent meaning not unlike what many, many different realworld contributors might give. But, more seriously, read the page history look at how it has been edited. It didn't at all just appear due to a single (copypaste from) synthetic source. It's clearly mostly anthropogenic in nature, for most of the the additions, removals and rearrangements that you clearly now feel you want to remove, add to and/or further reshuffle to your own satisfaction.

As to whether time travel paradoxes are involved in this comic... Cueball is (selectively!) worried that he's been giving too much information away, for pretty much that reason (even if his thoughts start to drift away regardint the essential nature of them), so I would think it's perfectly ok to mention some of the the other possibilities (that just by being there he's creating a paradox... either destructively so or creating an ontological-bootstrap one), in passing. Cueball is off on something a bit something to do with binge-watching something, and comically missing the point about everything else thathis Time Travel Tech might have left him involved with.

But you can edit it down, if you wish. That's how wikis work. Though don't be surprised if someone edits it back up again (with or without LLM 'assistance', thought I'd prefer without myself). 81.179.199.253 23:37, 28 May 2026 (UTC)

You don't need a magnetic compass, or Polynesian knowledge, if you have a Viking sunstone. Whatever that is. Martin (talk) 03:41, 29 May 2026 (UTC)

You'd still need Scandinavian knowledge. It'd be an aid to navigation (as with using an Uunartoq-style sun-disc, perhaps together) to interpret. And (except for areas of c9nfused magnetic declination) a north-pointing-stone (once you know which bit of the stone points north!) is comparatively simple to read a direction from. As with "that bit of starry sky" knowledge. But navigation by solar position (and its best crepuscular proxy, by lunar position plus shape, if the Moon is visible even though the necessary stars are not) has to involve a bit of additional knowledge of when you're observing that, and what adjustments to expectations that implies.

It's all a little more complicated than just using the moss on the trees to close enough find north (or, in modern urban areas, the satellite dishes on the houses to identify south) ...in northen climes, at least. That still needs the knowledge that it can be done, but isn't hard to take on board and use as a quick fix.

Understanding how to get to or from any particular polynesian archipelago, without ending up drifting (aimlessly, or at the very best, misaimed) across far too much of the Pacific, would need a bit more experience and perhaps advice learnt from a prior master-sailor. And tgose that would go viking might not need quite so much additional knowledge 'just' to find the east coast of the Angles' land, but they'd definitely need something like it to get to Iceland or Greenland without too much hit-and-miss. 82.132.238.245 04:58, 29 May 2026 (UTC)