Difference between revisions of "Talk:1534: Beer"

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:You are making the assumption that Cueball is expressing Randall's sentiment. But consider Hairy's last statement. I think there is intentional ambiguity over which one of them is misguided. [[Special:Contributions/|]] 01:15, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
:You are making the assumption that Cueball is expressing Randall's sentiment. But consider Hairy's last statement. I think there is intentional ambiguity over which one of them is misguided. [[Special:Contributions/|]] 01:15, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
Yes, that's the way I feel about beer; except I don't pretend and then just I don't drink beer, so they think I'm weird. I'm cool with that :P [[Special:Contributions/|]] 08:14, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Revision as of 08:14, 10 June 2015

I hate the taste and smell and associations (such as urine and vomit where they shouldn't be). A friend used to freely admit he didn't like the taste and only drank to get drunk. 06:24, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

This is why there are so many different styles of beers, or wines, or other alcoholic beverages.  I personally don't care for IPAs, but will rarely pass up a good Pilsner. 07:37, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

LOL, that's exactly what Cueball is talking about. Beer is a canonical example of acquired taste. But even after having done so, all hoppy beers (including most IPAs and Pilsners) still taste pretty similar to me. - Frankie (talk) 11:39, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
Like of beer is actually a really bad example of acquired taste. I was stealing sips of beer from my dad at age 3-4, if he had an unattended open beer. Liking of beer is primarily generics, and secondary acquired taste. Now talk about Marmite and discuss acquired taste. Spongebog (talk) 16:21, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
And you, sir, are a canonical example of an outlier. 😜 Seriously though, go to http://google.com and type "is an acquired taste". Google's very first autocomplete suggestion is beer. I'm not saying it's necessarily a good example, but it is about as canonical as you can get. - Frankie (talk) 03:09, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

Is it possible that the characters, being American, have only ever tasted American beer? So when Cueball says that "all beer tastes kind of bad" hat he really means is "all American beer tastes kind of bad"? That would make a lot more sense (especially if you assume that they only buy from the major brands, and haven't yet tried beer from microbreweries.) --PeR (talk) 09:30, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Well the other character mentions "Stouts", which the major American brands don't really produce (or at least don't heavily market). I think from that it's safe to assume that these characters are basing their opinions on American Craft brews, and not just Budweiser. 14:02, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem. I think too many people forget Occam's Razor here, and are too eager to engage in deeper analysis than the content can really support without help from, say, an interview with Randall. No offense intended; this is a trend on this wiki in general. 13:18, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
I'm kind of tired of people automatically assuming is someone doesn't like beer, it's because the person saying so has only been exposed to bad ones due to their locality. I don't like beer at all because it tastes like a mouthful of yeast and medicine. Alcohol in general is an acquired taste for most people, who usually only start drinking it due to social pressure or as a recreational drug. Yeasty foods are as well, especially yeasty breads, and beer is basically fermented bread juice when you get down to it. There's also a genetic link behind whether or not someone will like alcohol, and it's usually he effect rather than the taste that makes it appealing. -- 14:45, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
You need to read the research -- it is actually linked to genetic differences in taste-buds. You may not like it, which is not unlikely, but that does not say that is the same for others who may be genetically disposed otherwise Spongebog (talk) 18:54, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
...people are too eager to engage in deeper analysis than he content can support... - Isn't overanalyzing every minute detail the entire point of this wiki? Of course the explanations should be concise, but that doesn't apply to the wild mass guessing happening in the discussion. - 14:25, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Speaking from personal experience, I've never tried any form of alcohol that I've liked. And if you must know my experience is mainly centered around beer that's highly recommended by friends and family. The last case was at a tour of a local microbrewery that seems to be doing extremely well. I'm sure if I pulled a large scale taste test I'd aquire enough of a taste to delude myself into thinking that something or other is actually worth drinking but I don't see why I should go through the effort just to conform to a social norm. --not the mama108.162.238.180 14:30, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

You should NOT conform to social norm but drink what YOU feel taste good -- 10.000 years ago, humanity needed portable water -- west of the Urals, humans stared to use fermentation as a method to keep bacteria out of the drinking water, where east they started to brew tea -- their descendant responded genetically over the next 10.000 years with European developing genetic traits to be tolerant and liking the fermented brew. Beer is predominantly limited to north Europe as it has lower alcohol levels compared to wine -- the higher alcohol volume is needed to keep bacteria out in the warmer southern Europe -- HENCE unless you are of northen european decent you may not genetically be programmed to like (or tolerate) the taste of beer -- just don't drink beer if you don't like it !!! Spongebog (talk) 19:06, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
I'm 1/16th northern European (Dutch), 1/4th southern European, Native American too. Guess I didn't get the North Europe beer gene. Why'd the even northerner Europeans like the Russians and Scottish become distilled spirit drinkers? Did their beer freeze too easily so they made vodka and whiskey? If this is why the north developed a beer culture then why'd Egyptians and Mesopotamians drink beer? It's very hot there. 20:08, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
(1) "predominantly" and "exclusively" are to different words; they are also brewing wine in England. (2) Distilled alcohol for mass consumption is relatively new (~500 years), before that the process was known but not used for this purpose. (3) Many Europeans drink tea these days -- culture and fashion travels. Spongebog (talk) 00:55, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Agreed. Major brands suck, but probably in most countries, even Germany, where people usually have very high opinion about German beer. There are thousands of small breweries, though, some with a very old tradition (like in monasteries), and many just popping up recently. At some microbreweries you have to order weeks in advance, but the brew you get is really exceptional, and you'll drink it at room temperature from wine glasses. Absolutely not meant for getting drunk. 10:47, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

I am disliking to indifferent to most of brands of beer, but I like a few specific ones, like Ginger's Beer, or gingerbread beer from local brewery. --JakubNarebski (talk) 11:34, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

I know that beer is generally considered to be an acquired taste, but some people acquire that taste really quickly. The first beer I ever drank was a Miller that I stole from a case that my dad had left sitting in the kitchen for months. I was 12, and it is still probably the worst thing I've ever tasted. I decided I didn't like beer, and from ages 12 to 17 the only alcohol I drank was wine. At 17, I tried keg beer and was utterly indifferent to it. By the time I turned 19 I was into good local beers, but if I've been in the heat for a long time, I'll drink watery mediocre beer and it will be divine. And then there's shower beer...oh, shower beer!12:27, 5 June 2015 (UTC) (talk) (please sign your comments with ~~~~)

The only thing worse than a pilsner is an IPA... which is just a stronger version of a pilsner. Most beer just has way too high of an IBU rating. At least malts aren't entirely awful and oatmeal malts are somewhat palatable. 14:25, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Culturally, for me, the common booze is 'a pint of bitter' (or 'best'). I apparently had my first sip when a toddler. I 'sneakily' took a sip from the top of a glass sat in front of my father, before screwing my face up most amusingly, I am told. I then went straight back in for another... it's not obvious to me if I was being influenced to 'want to like it'. Perhaps it was just the novelty. Anyway, I will admit I don't love the taste of bitter, but at least it's got an significant taste that all the seemingly anonymous mass-produced lagers can't match. (OTOH, cider's quite stimulating, but I take against the overly fizzy ones.) When it comes to non-alcoholic beverages, I will actively refuse a cup of tea (the social norm for adults, especially someone like me in their fifth decade), however socially awkward and unexpected, and politely turn down the offer of a coffee, if possible, on the basis that I might not be staying long. (I don't like teas at all, even fruit ones, but I can stand coffee if sweetened.) But it's amazing what we tend to eat and drink, just because it's expected. 14:26, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Great comic. This is just for me. I do not like beer. Any kind. And I do rarely drink them. Same with cofee ans tee which I never drink. It is not always easy - so nice to see this comic. :) --Kynde (talk) 14:33, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

I'm a stout man (will drink stout alone, if it is dark enough and if the hop content is small enough), but will admit that any beer is better after the fifth glass of it.Seebert (talk) 14:40, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

"Acquired Taste"

Part of the explanation refers to acquired tastes as being a response to social pressures and to avoid cognitive dissonance. This doesn't match the description of what the linked to wikipedia page for acquired tastes, as that page distinguishes authentic acquired tastes from those meeting the author's description.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acquired_taste#Intentional_acquisition_of_tastes 15:08, 5 June 2015 (UTC)Aaron E

Budweiser tastes like urine. It's the most popular beer in the US. Immediately after trying it I tasted a drop of my urine to see if the urine was still worse and that wasn't enough urine to decide. Anyone care to put a larger amount of urine in their mouth for science? This is the crap they make Bud..Weis..Er and Wassuuuuuuup! commercials about? They actually make a Lite version of this so people can enjoy it while getting less drunk or fat? Extroverts are weird. Also, out of the legion of OKcupid questions the best predictor of the promiscuity question is "I like the taste of beer, true or false". So if you want to have sex quick, you want to hear "Beer tastes awesome! Woo! [Burp] [Vomit] Ooh!Ooh!" [drinks vodka from bottle] 16:55, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Strangely, many animals acquire a taste for alcohol, and they must do it quickly because they don't live long enough to do it slowly. Case in point-- robins and other birds, gobbling up fermented fallen fruit, and then stumbling around like human novice drinkers do. They only live 2-3 years, and they only have access to the stuff for a couple of weeks in the autumn, and yet, there they go, staggering down the sidewalk and tripping over imaginary twigs. And then there's my puppy, who was begging droplets of strong beer and black coffee off my fingertips from eight weeks old. (Good Canadian beer, by the way.) I wonder if a taste for bitterness might be adaptive, as many bitter plants are also medicinal? NoniMausa (talk) 22:46, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Okay, some people don't like beer. That doesn't mean everyone who does is faking it. I gravitate towards IPAs, stouts, rye IPAs and barrel-aged strong beers. I also like scotch, rye, and some bourbons. I fucking love dark roasted black coffee. I savor all of these in company and alone. Stop being so solipsic. 03:32, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

I actively dislike the taste of every beer that I have tried. That includes Guiness on tap in Dublin. I sort of got into trouble for it the few days I was there agus ag labhairt na Gaeilge. But this discussion is one of the most amusing and enjoyable arguments I have seen yet on this website. Go ahead on, folks! Taibhse (talk) 03:48, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

I've been scratching my head over this one since I saw it come out, and I still can't tell what Randall is trying to say. Are we meant to take it at face value, where Cueball is right on and Hairy is simply unwilling to admit that deep down he (just like apparently every other beer drinker everywhere) dislikes beer, and everyone is pretending because of social pressure? Or is this a subversion of the expected, and meant as a dig at the kind of person who would so arrogantly think that their personal dislike of something popular simply means everyone who claims to like it is pretending to do so out of social pressures or internalized expectations (no pun intended)? In this comic, Cueball comes across to me as kind of a passive-aggressive jerk (which is normally Hairy's role) as he openly derides something that someone else may genuinely enjoy by claiming everyone is pretending, and when reminded that it's fine for him to not drink it, he responds with bitter sarcasm. So who's the butt of the joke here? Hairy because he can't see that he's only doing something from social pressure? Or Cueball for assuming that Hairy (as well as the other millions of people who regularly enjoy beer around the world) is only doing something and pretending to like it because of social pressure. 06:20, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

+1 above comment. I'm on the side of the second interpretation, but my (possibly prejudiced guess) is that Randall may dislike beer! 13:00, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Maybe both interpretations are valid, and this helps us see the problem of empathy here. The same way cueball can't be objectively sure about hairy faking it or not, we can't be absolutely sure about it either, not knowing if cueball is exposing harsh truths or being an unempathetic jerk. Our interpretation will be based on our own biases on the subject. 13:28, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

I think this is a wildly fascinating conversation! First, it's interesting we all care so much about a beverage. Clearly, we view our own preference for beer as much more than a taste, but rather a statement of identity. Second, the popularity of objectively terrible and tasteless beers (originally from the US, but now mindlessly copied by practically every country on the planet) shows that it is possible that we beer lovers are deluding ourselves (and also that beer-avoiders are deluding themselves as well). The identity statement of preferring or avoiding beer may be so strong that we may not really know if we like beer or not.

Beer is diverse, and indeed if someone truly dislikes all of it for flavor reasons, they would be expected to also dislike either bread, bitter herbs, other alcohols, or all of the above. From the comments here, it seems that those who dislike beer also dislike other alcohol, so perhaps it is alcohol itself that can be highly distasteful. Ethanol doesn't have a flavor, so let's assume it's either the somewhat burny mouthfeel, or perhaps the mental effects of alcohol that are disliked.

It also seems that those who dislike beer have indeed not tried very much of it "I...dislike...every beer that I have tried. That includes Guiness..." provides fodder for those who would suggest, "Well, if Guiness is your idea of a beer, then you haven't nearly tried enough to know you dislike it!" However, as some have pointed out here, it is highly unfair to expect that someone who truly dislikes beer will try all of the thousands of varieties of it, presumably disliking every one, until we accept that the dislike is genuine.

Even the comic shows that Randall rejects beer without knowing much about it. That Hairy suggests two categories of beer to be "stouts" and "lagers" is telling. Stout is a specific style of beer, while lager is a giant category that includes beers as dissimilar as light american lager and Baltic Porter. Someone who likes and is interested in beer would not ask the question Hairy does. Yet Randall's beer ignorance may stem from avoidance due to a true dislike, and it would be unfair to expect him to gain competence in everything he finds offensive before we allow him his opinion. Drummstikk (talk) (please sign your comments with ~~~~)

Lots to think about here! Drummstikk (talk) 19:21, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Drinking alcoholic drinks of any description is just a stupid idea from the start. "Oh yeah, lets drink this thing that hampers our ability to think clearly and undermines several important inhibitions that stop us from hurling ourselves into traffic while puking! Clearly nothing can go wrong with this!". -Pennpenn 23:48, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

I don't know if you've actually been drunk to see what it's like or are thinking of others. When I was drunk, I bounced off of buildings cause home was so far and I realized that since square root of two is 141%, I could shorten my zig zag trip over 10% if I aim somewhat towards the wall and get pulled by the alcohol every few steps. (also, it was fun, like an amusement ride or a holodeck program I'd like to write). If I helped the drunk pull slightly (except fighting it near the sides to keep from slamming into the wall or breaking a tempered glass bus shelter) I could carom at least 8 feet off the bus shelters and buildings like a zig-zag billiard ball before it didn't feel like real artificial gravity was doing most of the work. I could say hey baby to every woman I passed and not attract a single one which is crazy. I still never lost the ability to add up the 12 and 18oz cans and fractions of cans of Bud I drunk, in ounces, subtract 12oz for each hour and fraction since I drunk those ounces and try to get halfway to 120 which is unconscious, except multiply by 125lbs/175lbs for a margin of safety because I do *not* want to black out, and estimate how many times over 0.08 DUI I was, all in my head. I held onto the banister with both hands for dear life. I even had the good judgement to switch to crawling the last flight or two. But I (and maybe you) have lots of IQ to spare. Since your average party/party "DUDE yeah!" dumbass is about 85 *sober*, they need all the IQ they can spare and must be literally retarded (= <70) when drunk. My dumbass father actually wanted me to go back down 5 flights of stairs, climb 8 ft down a fucking air shaft ladder and retrieve the keys I dropped. I don't care if you're mad I dropped my keys, I'm not leaving home till tomorrow. My father almost died several times. Once waded to floating depth with no lifeguard and can't swim (waves exist idiot), once crossed a cliff and could've drowned if he fell, once walked miles up a double-track funicular and didn't die cause he was never trapped. For more stupidity, a flight instructor c. 1950 died cause he got out and shut his door on clothing. Dad saw the pilot flying a human being like a flag until they ran out of time and he went off to land. He did not survive the taking off and landing while tied to the plane. Scarves kill. 06:21, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
I've never been drunk. A lifetime of seeing otherwise intelligent people act like complete idiots under the influence and an almost neurotic need to maintain as much self control I can muster makes it an entirely undesirable state to be in. I'm glad you enjoy it, I guess, but the rest of your words don't inspire any more confidence in me regarding being drunk. -Pennpenn 23:47, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
There are whole different levels of being drunk. There's nothing wrong with having a drink or two, more so because you lose part of your inhibitions. Dismissing something as a stupid idea just leads to never investigating those stupid ideas which may have their own strong points. It's actually beneficial for your EQ to have a drink or two, just to lose the natural inhibitions. But yeah, to each their own. 08:10, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

"I don't like A, therefore everyone that does like A is wrong." This is the first xkcd I've seen that is just dumb. -- 19:30, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

You are making the assumption that Cueball is expressing Randall's sentiment. But consider Hairy's last statement. I think there is intentional ambiguity over which one of them is misguided. 01:15, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Yes, that's the way I feel about beer; except I don't pretend and then just I don't drink beer, so they think I'm weird. I'm cool with that :P 08:14, 10 June 2015 (UTC)