Talk:1350: Lorenz

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Visual tree / map?

How hard would it be to come up with a tree graphing out the different choices? The nodes could be panels and the lines could represent text choices. Has anyone tried it? --108.162.221.34 23:40, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

I've had the story loop back to the first frame, so it wouldn't surprise me if this could go on infinitely if it had the available dialogue options.

This is going to be a hell of a thing. Good luck... H (talk) 15:39, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

I think this is one of those times when the custom field might come in handy. Duplicating Randall's code seems like it might be difficult, and it might just be easier to link to the original page. Probably. Davidy²²[talk] 15:47, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
I think it should just show a screenshot of the initial image and options 173.245.50.61 02:49, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

There's always new story lines, even when you think you've read them all, new ones appear to replace them. I don't think it'll ever be possible to record them all. 108.162.212.192 15:55, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

The text changes, but there are recurring themes with the panels. The rocket, the big hole, the little hole, Dinosaurcomics, pokemon, waking up, stranded swimming.........H (talk) 18:03, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

When I go to XKCD, all I see is the comic from Monday... weird. --Jeff (talk) 16:45, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Same here... and a lot of space below it. Z (talk) 17:43, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
I think that happens when you have refreshed the page too many time -- kind of an anti spam for user submissions. I simply create an anonymous browser window and I got back to the real page once xkcd was not able to track me as a returning user. Spongebog (talk) 17:59, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Currently there appears to be a bug. Instead of the evolving, crowd-sourced comic, I just see an off-center copy of the previous comic, 1349: Shouldn't Be Hard. Screenshot here. UPDATE: it appears to be a bug in the XSRF-blocking code. Chrome console shows me the error "XMLHttpRequest cannot load http://c1.xkcd.com/graph/1/. The 'Access-Control-Allow-Origin' header has a value 'http://xkcd.com' that is not equal to the supplied origin. Origin 'http://www.xkcd.com' is therefore not allowed access." FURTHER UPDATE: you can work around this bug by going to http://xkcd.com instead of http://www.xkcd.com! It also doesn't work if you have HTTPS Everywhere enabled. 108.162.216.38 16:46, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

    • I can confirm this bug in Firefox. Weirdly, the work-around functioned one time for me, but now going to "xkcd.com" rather than "www.xkcd.com" just gives me a copy of 1349 as well. 199.27.130.180 17:40, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
The workaround didn't work for me, I still got monday's comic on either URL. (Chromium 36.0.1919.0 (260611), Mac OS 10.9.2) Z (talk) 17:45, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
Same here. Used IE and Firefox. Removed the "www." and haven't. (Never used https:// at all.) Tried InPrivate (and FF equivalent) browsers. Gone into the code and can't even fudge it manually from <div id="comic"><img src="http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/shouldnt_be_hard.png" title="Every choice, no matter how small, begins a new story." alt="Lorenz" /> <script type="text/javascript">Bernardo.comic({el: $('#comic')}) </script></div>, and the rest, manually. (Indeed, that shows why I get 1349's "shouldn't be hard" image, by default.) Pity. 141.101.89.224 02:25, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

This comic introduced(?) a font of its own of Randalls comic type. I don't know if it has been sitting there for long, but I just noticed it: http://xkcd.com/fonts/xkcd-Regular.eot -- phiarc 108.162.219.12 17:20, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Is it the same as was used in Externalities? H (talk) 18:00, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Does everyone have these options in some order for the first tile?

  • Refresh... No New Email... Refresh .. No New Tweets... Refresh...
  • These Stupid Tiles... I'll Just Play One More Game
  • Oh. Hey. There's Some Kind Of Politicial Thing Going On.
  • Let's See If BSD Is Any Easier to Install Nowadays

--Jeff (talk) 17:54, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

If so, we can begin to build a map of at least the first set of options before the crowd-sourced ones. --Jeff (talk) 17:56, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
Yes, though the second-tier options have changed H (talk) 18:00, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
The first level options may be constant (Im seeing the same as Jeff), but I suspect that the following options is based on some sort of ckick though statitics / machine learning -- which means that the will continue to change until Randall closes off the 'voting' -- if 1193: Externalities is anything to go by that should be within the next 24-48 hours, at which point automating the collection of story lines may be possible. Spongebog (talk) 18:11, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
I'm going to transcript some of what I get at least through the first few levels and then we can start with a list of options for those who don't want to go through them all. --Jeff (talk) 18:37, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
I have no idea how one would do this, but it would be cool to render the transcript as a tree of some sort; having one vertical list will be hard to follow for more than a few decisions. 199.27.130.180 00:14, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
New initial option! I just got "Hurry! We're in talks with Facebook." In place of the "refresh" option. http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:2b330d48-bb01-11e3-8003-002590d77bdd --108.162.242.8 23:15, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Ohh, this comic is buggy and the link here at the top gives just the page from Monday, showing errors on debuggers. But removing the WWW from URL helps. Further more I can't see that the result of the choices is dynamic. So let's prove this. --Dgbrt (talk) 19:33, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

Have a look at http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/2/2b/lorenz_combination1.png and http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/images/9/9a/lorenz_combination2.png and you can see the option orders are changing -- this is a typical artifact of A/B testing where randomization of options is needed to avoid selection bias. I have futher observed "your car is on fire" instead of the "dinosaur" option, hence not only the orders are channging but the content as well -- maybe somebody else can capture this. Spongebog (talk) 22:08, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

How are new dialogue suggestions approved? Are they random, by popular vote (unlikely, not very many people would suggest the same thing), or is Randall approving them one by one? Z (talk) 20:26, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

They may not need to be explicitly approved at all -- one of the beutiful things about click though measures is that the public votes for what is good by clicking -- this is also a factor in search ranking by your favorite search engine where statistics are driving the entire show -- in a search engine some input to the statistical process comes from the web pages, but other comes from what people are actually clicking Spongebog (talk) 22:14, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

What is this a screenshot of? It's zoomed out so far. http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:5b5bd04e-b9d6-11e3-8008-002590d77bdd Haithere (talk) 20:39, 1 April 2014 (UTC)

you mean this : http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/a1-2014/Rl92nFEWd9huvXABNkHKHg.png ? Spongebog (talk) 22:20, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
It appears to be a screen shot from a flight simulator program of some sort, however im not able to tell which, and since it is most likely an 'in-game' screen short we will never find out unless somebody else is playing this precises flight simulator program Spongebog (talk) 22:37, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
I am not certain, but I strongly suspect that is Kerbal Space Program 108.162.242.111 (talk) (please sign your comments with ~~~~)
it really is Kerbal Space Program, or KSP for short 108.162.219.65 (talk) (please sign your comments with ~~~~)
found this image from KSP http://i.imgur.com/UofvQ.png Spongebog (talk) 09:07, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

A transcript is going to be futile. It appears as though the comic may go on indefinitely (I've definitely had some branches continue extending until I've seen frames that were present in other branches). I suspect what's happening here is that... options are "suggested", and those suggestions are displayed at random to people. The ones with the most clickthroughs begin to appear more often, until eventually the top 4 are "locked in" and no more suggestions can be made. Very creative! But I'm not convinced that Randall is making frames in near-real-time, nor am I even convinced he's part of the approval process at all. I suspect it's all automated. 108.162.215.28 00:29, 2 April 2014 (UTC)


It seems it is possible to have the same option appear twice in the first panel. http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:be7a3304-b685-11e3-8001-94de80a03a29 --173.245.54.48 10:27, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

They are not the same options -- the text differes where one option has "I'll" with a captal I and the other option is 'i'll' with a lowercase I -- I guess some prankster submitted a very similar text and somehow that got included. The branching also differs for the two options. Spongebog (talk) 17:12, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Is it still supposed to work or was it turned off? All I see is Monday comics ... and no errors in firebug console. Oh, wait, there is javascript error: Timestamp: 04/02/14 12:56:21 Error: TypeError: this.$lastPanel is null Source File: http://xkcd.com/1350/bernardo.min.js Line: 2 -- Hkmaly (talk) 11:03, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

It still works for me -- try to clear your cookies or use an anonymous window or go to xkcd.com (no www no https) or some of the other helpful suggestions on this page to overcome some of the buggy nature of this page. Spongebog (talk) 17:12, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

tl;dr, but I applaud Randall's creativity. Added to the Colossal time sinks category. – tbc (talk) 13:15, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Has it restarted? It used to work just fine on my browser but now only the first panel is available, after clicking an option it said my suggestion has been submitted. Great when it works though, thanks Randal. Jet_proppeled_elephant108.162.219.35 14:53, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

It feels like there are a bunch of "dead-end panels", that we never really get past. One example the "bright background" strip, in which we only see the shadows of the two characters. Nobody seems to care what happens after those. 108.162.245.8 18:59, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

I found a Dinosaur Comics reference, permalink: http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:3d243960-b9b6-11e3-8001-002590d77bdd Has this been found before? 173.245.55.73 20:08, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

I don't have time to do it myself, but most of the space images from this path are not in the images page. http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:6490cc4a-b9f0-11e3-8009-002590d77bdd Zweisteine (talk) 23:33, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Ok, I'm gonna add those. Daniel Carrero (talk) 23:38, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Great! And now I found another: Pikachu uses Ethylene Dichloride. http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:6f59d766-ba95-11e3-8001-002590d77bdd I'll add it to the but about pikachu in the comic, but the pictures are up to someone else.Zweisteine (talk) 23:47, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Slightly different space path, in which the rocket expodes: http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:dd99ea0e-ba04-11e3-8017-002590d77bdd Zweisteine (talk) 23:59, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Good. I've finished adding all images that you mentioned. Also, the two last images of the slightly different space path were not in the images page, now I added them too. Daniel Carrero (talk) 00:14, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Pikachu died! Radicality failed -> Pikachu in shock! http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:5c565bf2-ba05-11e3-8017-002590d77bdd --eternia 7:33, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Pikachu uses Graph Theory. How is that not effective?! http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:52f2389c-baaf-11e3-801f-002590d77bdd --eternia 7:47, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
Pikachu uses Ant Colony. Uwah... http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:2b707ed6-ba97-11e3-8006-002590d77bdd --eternia 8:02, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
1 shark instead of 3. http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:9ba111ee-ba96-11e3-8004-002590d77bdd --eternia 8:14, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
0 sharks. http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:e0e4d984-baaf-11e3-8026-002590d77bdd --eternia 8:17, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
I'm gonna add those too. Daniel Carrero (talk) 12:41, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Are there any panels that have two speech bubbles that are not dead ends? It seems that there are never any options for the second bubble, and sometimes the first bubble has options that would fit in the second bubble after the other options for the first bubble. Maybe submissions for the second bubble accidentally end up in the first instead? Another bug? Zweisteine (talk) 23:56, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

There's a change for us still-bugged people (well, me at least). The "show previous comic" part is gone. It shows a blank area (instead of Comic 1349 and a blank area of the same size) and the page-source shows that the <img src="http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/shouldnt_be_hard.png" title="Every choice, no matter how small, begins a new story." alt="Lorenz" /> part has now been excised from the page. That's on Javascript-enabled, cookie-enabled Firefox and IE browsers, and every valid URL configuration one can think of (including shift-refreshing to force redownloading, just in case it was page-cache issues as well). I'll update the Bugs section of the explanation page with a summary of that, if you don't mind. 141.101.88.211 01:48, 4 April 2014 (UTC)


We need some place to discuss certain issues. I give it a shot below Kynde (talk) 21:10, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Transcipt discussion
Design
  • What about four transcripts - one for each of the four first original choices?
  • Should these transcripts be on a separate page? It becomes tedious to scroll to the discussion page...Kynde (talk) 21:13, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Could we use the hide option so you only see the options from the first panel. Then you unhide to see the next panel etc. This would be a little like the comic and would make it much easier to read and it would not be such a long page! Kynde (talk) 10:35, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
    I'm working on the hide option. Daniel Carrero (talk) 15:14, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
    I now implemented the hide option. It looks good! in my opinion. It should be easy to edit. It would be too much work to convert the whole thing to the collapsible version so, sorry but I just removed the whole thing and started from the very beginning. This[1] is the link to the old version, in case anyone wants to help converting it to the collapsible version. Daniel Carrero (talk) 16:46, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
I did the same for trivia with a separate page for the old version that can be expanded if anyone wishes. And all the work is not lost. I have linked to it from trivia but it is here: 1350: Lorenz/Transcript. Kynde (talk) 22:19, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
Characters
  • Where does the name Dave come from for the hairy guy who comes in after the first panel? I can see it once in the transcript - but it is said by White hat the sales guy. I'm not sure it is his name and the chatagory for hairy is assigned to the comic! Kynde (talk) 21:16, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Hat guy? Is it a hat? Is there not a better English word for the type of "hat" worn by the main character from the first panel? It is not a hat like white or black hat! Kynde (talk) 21:18, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
    • I named him Hat Guy originally to make things easier. Feel free to change the name, I guess :) Knit Cap Guy, maybe? If a change is warranted, a simple search-and-replace should do it. Also, I'm not sure it's a guy or a girl... But the previous text was also treating him as male to begin with, anyway. Daniel Carrero (talk) 21:36, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Is the right politician = Cueball?
  • Who is the left? Kynde (talk) 21:23, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Isn't is likely that the characters only have names given to them by us readers in our suggestions? They don't necessarily have constant names. Zweisteine (talk) 23:33, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Exactly my point. I think we should stick with hairy guy and maybe Knit Cap Guy! Kynde (talk) 10:28, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

I see you already changed Hat Guy to Knit Cap Guy and Dave to Hairy. Knit Cap Guy is a nice name. Originally, I would disagree with you and insist we should stick to Dave because that's what the character is called in one storyline of the strip itself, but I see he is also called Frank in other timeline. Since he has multiple names, using just Hairy is better in my opinion, too. Daniel Carrero (talk) 12:40, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Knit Cap Guy is probably a Girl. Just sayin'. 173.245.52.28 12:22, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Probably! Originally I thought it was Megan with a knit cap on. Daniel Carrero (talk) 12:40, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
It IS a girl! http://www.xkcd.com/1350/#p:1e4325a2-baaf-11e3-801f-002590d77bdd 173.245.48.66 21:44, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
Well I think you are correct - that it is a girl. However you can NEVER use text in the comic to decide - because it is user created - I could have written the same line with guy instead of girl! Anyway - could someone change Knit Cap Guy to Knit Cap Girl? Kynde (talk) 10:04, 4 April 2014 (UTC)


Other
  • Seems like the permalink at the top of the transcript does not work for me anymore - then they will be useless! Else they are the best way to quote different lines of the comic. Kynde (talk) 21:31, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Oh, now they work again. ;) Kynde (talk) 10:31, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Chategories not yet included

Should they be?

  • I have seen the word Raptor mentioned - so should velociraptor be a chategory? Kynde (talk) 21:21, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
  • Cueball? I.e. the politician on the right? Kynde (talk) 21:28, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
  • I understand that many categories has been deleted as all text references can be user generated. But when there is a drawing with a dinosaur then this categories should be included etc. Kynde (talk) 19:14, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
Images

I created 1350: Lorenz/Images with all the images I could find in the comic. I'm not sure if I should have left them in the main page 1350: Lorenz, but feel free to decide what to do with them. Also, I tried using the tag <gallery>, but I couldn't make it work, so I used a lot of divs. Daniel Carrero (talk) 23:23, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Great idea - just what I hoped someone would and could do. Thanks ;) Is it easy to add new images to the page if they show up? Kynde (talk) 10:32, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
You're welcome! :) It's pretty easy... I explained in the images page how exactly you would save a new image if they show up. Daniel Carrero (talk) 13:52, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
Can see there keep appearing new images from the text above. Kynde (talk) 10:39, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
New shark images here: http://xkcd.com/1350/#p:30f53d98-bbb3-11e3-801c-002590d77bdd 108.162.221.65 (talk) (please sign your comments with ~~~~)
I have updated the page and made a talk page there to add comments like the above. Have already found d 3 new images cannot add them with this tablet Kynde (talk) 22:19, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for this work, but nobody knows if this is complete. --Dgbrt (talk) 19:49, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Many-worlds interpretation

The title text "Every choice, no matter how small, begins a new story" might as well be a hint to Hugh Everett III 's "Many-worlds interpretation" of quantum theory. 108.162.219.74 (talk) (please sign your comments with ~~~~)

Except that the title is Lorenz a direct reference to the guy with the butterfly effect... Kynde (talk) 10:37, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
Can't it be both? The Butterfly Effect can be seen as one consequence of the Many-Worlds interpretation. A choice as simple as whether (or where) a butterfly flaps its wings can send our entire universe down a different timeline, in which a hurricane occurs. 108.162.216.49 19:46, 3 April 2014 (UTC)


Most, maybe all pictures do correspond to an existing comic here

I'm calling on you to not destroy a first simple explain, even the transcript. But nearly every picture belongs to a former comic — this has to be explained at the Themes section. We have some dinosaurs, but there is much more. Please help on this issue. --Dgbrt (talk) 21:56, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

What are you referring to? Has anyone deleted something important? Hope it wasn't me? Kynde (talk) 22:19, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
Well I can see it was me. We obviously disagree with what could be a trivia item and with which categories should be included even obvious ones. There has before been mention of missing pieces of hats etc and when there is one in hundreds of images with an error then it could make a fun trivia item in my opinion! I will stop editing and let you decide what to do with this comic? Kynde (talk) 22:30, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
You totally misunderstand me. I'm asking for an explain to every picture because it should belong to a former comic.
Further more I'm just trying to keep the explain as simple as possible; individual error experiences should not be posted at the explain. I did remove that content in order to keep it simple as possible to an ordinary reader.
Please improve the picture explains, but also please keep that explain simple as possible to readers are not interested on all that crap done by Randall.
--Dgbrt (talk) 22:38, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
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