2981: Slingshots
| Slingshots |
 Title text: In my reboot, Dennis the Menace was just trying to send Mr. Wilson a nice comet, but accidentally wiped out his dinosaur garden. |
Explanation
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This explanation may be incomplete or incorrect: Created by a WRIST ROCKET SMUGGLED INTO MASSACHUSETTS - Please change this comment when editing this page. Do NOT delete this tag too soon. If you can address this issue, please edit the page! Thanks. |
The slingshot (in this comic, styled "Regular Slingshot") is a hand-held device used for accelerating small projectiles, such as stones or steel balls. In an earlier form, the concept had existed since ancient times, and has been used for personal defense and for hunting game such as squirrels, birds, and Philistines through skillful use of its mechanical advantage and rotation. The more modern "forked stick and elastic" version (known as a catapult, in the UK) acts by a pull-back-and-release action, and has become associated with youthful recklessness (or an outright tendency towards vandalism), but is also the basis of manufactured sport/hunting devices as well as the more organic child-made contraptions.
The gravitational slingshot, or gravity assist, is not a device but a term used to describe how gravity may alter the path of an object in space, such as a spacecraft or an asteroid. A gravitational slingshot generally involves a small object passing by a much more massive object, which turns the smaller object's trajectory, trading momentum and kinetic energy between the two bodies. The smaller object can undergo a large change in velocity, "paid for" (in the sense of conserving the momentum and energy of the system) with a negligible change in the velocity of the more massive body.
This comic humorously compares the two, in tabular format.
| Regular slingshot | Gravitational slingshot | |
|---|---|---|
| Used for hunting | ✓ | X |
| Used for sport shooting | ✓ | X |
| Used for spacecraft propulsion | X | ✓ |
| Large online enthusiast community | ✓ | ✓ |
| May have caused dinosaur extinction | Probably not | Maybe |
| Used by Dennis the Menace to terrorize Mr. Wilson | ✓ | Not yet, but I'm pitching a reboot |
The first four categories accurately reflect reality. As a hunting tool (and as an offensive weapon), recent designs have been claimed to propel a projectile with more force than .22 and .38 caliber pistols. Consequently, several communities have prohibited the possession of such slingshots, which may be called "wrist rockets". The state of Massachusetts, where cartoonist Randall resides, is one of those communities. Gravitational slingshots would be inefficient and overkill for such purposes, as well as being difficult to achieve sufficient accuracy and specificity.
Conversely, gravitational slingshots are a useful way to change the velocity of a spacecraft without having to use large amounts of fuel, whereas building a regular slingshot capable of propelling a spacecraft is likely to be impractical - not to mention the destructive/fatal consequences, to vehicle and cargo, of near-instantaneous acceleration to useful velocities, such as the Mach33 required for an object at sea level to escape Earth's gravity, especially when there's an atmosphere present.
Both types of slingshot excite interest among many people who may form online communities to discuss them, but for quite different reasons, and the size of overlap between these communities is uncertain.
The fifth category ventures into the absurd, at least with respect to "regular" slingshots, which did not exist (so far as we know) at the time of the Cretaceous-Tertiary extinction event. (Humans, which invented them, did not exist at that time. Use of slingshots would therefore require some other contemporaneous intelligent species to have invented them, or some kind of time travel.) However, it is likely that the event resulted from the impact of a space-rock that was perturbed into an Earth-crossing orbit by a planet such as Jupiter, given at least a minor gravitational slingshot on its way to eventually crashing into the Earth.
The sixth category references the long-running comic and cartoon character Dennis the Menace (USA), in which the titular character unintentionally harasses neighbor Mr. Wilson with (regular) slingshots and other devices and behaviors. In Randall's projected reboot of the franchise, which is elaborated on in the title text, Dennis trades his regular slingshot for a gravitational slingshot. By miscalibrating his ammunition, or the force of his slingshot, he turns a demonstration ("a nice comet") into a destructive event (the loss of Wilson's dinosaur garden). The reference is to the relative size and velocity of the space objects responsible for, respectively, comets and "meteors" versus asteroid impacts.
Transcript
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This transcript is incomplete. Please help editing it! Thanks. |
| Regular slingshot | Gravitational slingshot | |
|---|---|---|
| Used for hunting | ✓ | X |
| Used for sport shooting | ✓ | X |
| Used for spacecraft propulsion | X | ✓ |
| Large online enthusiast community | ✓ | ✓ |
| May have caused dinosaur extinction | Probably not | Maybe |
| Used by Dennis the Menace to terrorize Mr. Wilson | ✓ | Not yet, but I'm pitching a reboot |
Trivia
The "Dennis the Menace" that the Randall refers to, familiar to those in the US, is not to be confused with the other long-running comic and cartoon character from the UK, also called Dennis the Menace, who has a surprisingly similar premise and identical date of creation but is more wilfully disruptive and capable of far more 'cartoonish' behaviour (which might well include planetary-scale fork-stick slingshots/catapults). Mark Hamill is a fan of the British character (possibly from his time filming the original Star Wars films in the local studios), and also has some experience with (fictional) disruption of planets by constructed weapons.
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refresh comments!Discussion
We don't put tables in the transcript, which is supposed to be screen-readable. Tables are not screen-readable. Ianrbibtitlht (talk) 04:25, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- I now see the hidden "Tables are bad?" content in the incomplete transcript notice! Cute! Ianrbibtitlht (talk) 04:33, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- anybody want to change the transcript? not too confident on how to write it. 42.book.addict (talk) 17:06, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- Given it a go. Could add "regular column" and "gravitational column" pre-descriptors to each subsequent pair of row elements, or go the other way and remove the [Row N] bit. Also chose to use the [label]s of [Tick] and [Cross] in place of the 'fancy' characters; could have gone with [Ticked], [Marked with a tick], [Affirmed], etc, but this seemed sensible. Obviously still open for editing.
- If I'd have started from scratch, I would have used the (previously identical) table-markup version in the Explanation but have put the "Yay/Nay/freetext" explanation in there with it. But that's not to say that it doesn't look fairly ok (if not better?) in the paragraph-by-paragraph treatment as it currently is, with the table there as visual repeat only.
- YMMV on all aspects of my choice/complicit acceptance, naturally. 172.69.194.143 18:20, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- Looks great! Thanks. Ianrbibtitlht (talk) 21:03, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- anybody want to change the transcript? not too confident on how to write it. 42.book.addict (talk) 17:06, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
We should clarify that it's the American Dennis and not the British one. There are differences, which I learned the hard way :( 172.69.43.184 06:48, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- I expanded (and moved to a Trivia section) the interesting facts of this coincidence. (And I didn't add this link there, but maybe it's of "not even Trivia" interest, so you can have it here instead.) 172.70.86.37 10:53, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- This case is pretty clearly the US one; there is no "Mr Wilson" in the UK comic... though I'm going to go out on a limb and assert that if there was, he would assuredly be terrorised by Dennis. And Gnasher. (The US is really missing out on Gnasher!) --162.158.74.48 09:02, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
I'm really surprised that "regular slingshot" is "no" for spacecraft instead of something like "not yet". SystemParadox (talk) 09:46, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- There's definitely spring-type "delivery systems" (analogues of the elastic slingshots, arguably) which hasten the detatchment of items on a multi-launch 'racked' delivery system. There's also the (proposed, SFAIK not yet tried in anger) rotating-tether release system, akin to biblical sling(shot)s, that would actually be what the gravitational slingshot is most similar to by pure analogy.
- If we ever get a space-elevator and 'drop' things off from the counterweight station, then that would effectively be a biblical slingshot on a planetary scale. (If we time the drop right, or very wrong, with a heavy enough load or even most of the counterweight itself, such that it ends up eventually impacting Earth or any other inhabited lump of rock, it could well also be a matter of a planetary slingshot with effects on a biblical scale!) 172.70.86.37 10:53, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
Gravitational slingshot & Used for Sport shooting would also be a "not yet". Imagine a couple of millenia from now, where gravitational slingshoting is a sport, and is called shooting for one of many reasons. ok, fair. It's a stretch. But I felt I had to mention it. 162.158.222.142 12:45, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- In Futurama they use Gravitational slingshot for "Miniature" golf
This comic comes the same week as the release of a movie called Slingshot about the gravitational kind.
Isn't David supposed to be using a sling in his fight with Goliath, not a slingshot? That is, a long bit of material that you can use to throw a projectile with higher velocity? There seems to be similar confusion in describing a slingshot as using "mechanical advantage and rotation". A slingshot doesn't really involve rotation, nor does it involve mechanical advantage, really. Mechanical advantage is force amplification, right? And most slingshots don't amplify force, they simply are better than human bodies at delivering that force while moving quickly - that is, they amplify power. Maybe that's splitting hairs. 172.68.71.102 14:52, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- I see now that the text has been edited, distinguishing a sling as "an earlier form" of the slingshot. I still don't think that's accurate. They both accelerate a projectile, but they're not at all the same mechanism. Slingshots store deformation energy, and slings store kinetic energy. If we're talking ancient weapons that a slingshot is comparable to, it's far more like a bow than it is a sling. 172.71.22.58 15:16, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- Indeed, the etymologists tell us that "hand-held implement for throwing stones" is the original meaning of the word "sling", and it dates to 1300. Whereas "slingshot", with "hand catapult" given as a synonym (implying the cleft-stick version), dates only from 1849. The etymologists also tell us that, by the 14th century, "sling" had acquired the additional meaning of "loop for carrying heavy objects", and, by the 18th century, "cloth for suspending an injured arm". These meanings, I argue, gained prominence, while the sling (weapon) fell out of favor, in armies and in language. I daresay that a person with deir arm in a sling would shudder at the prospect of that arm being hurled at an oncoming foe. It appears to me that, at least in the USA where I reside, "slingshot" is now applied to both the "hand catapult" and the "sling (weapon)" to avoid confusion with the sling (object carrier). 172.68.23.190 15:42, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- I'm also in the US, but slingshot to me specifically evokes something where you store and release elastic energy. People often *hear* sling and think it's referring to a slingshot, because they're unfamiliar with an actual sling (weapon). Although slingshot and sling are certainly etymologically related, they are not technologically related. You might argue that a "gravitational slingshot" is a misnomer, in that its arc around a body is more akin to a sling than to a slingshot, I suppose. But a sling is not an earlier form of the "regular slingshot" in this comic. 172.71.31.46 16:56, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- See the excellent comment below. Instances of this sort of thing abound, porque Inglés es loco. Even in the sciences. A cylindrical, motile structure responsible for motion of, or circulation of water currents around, eukaryotic cells is termed a "flagellum" if it's moving sperm, or a "cilium" if it's moving phlegm on the surface of the trachea. There is no structural or functional difference between the "flagellum" and the "cilium" of these cells, but there are plenty between the "flagellum" of sperm cells and the "flagellum" found on some bacterial cells. However, an attempt to use a common term (undulipodium) for the common structure was shouted down. The preference was to retain imprecise terms that were understood by some of the people some of the time, rather than trying to adopt a precise term that was understood by nobody. Vox populi, vox Dei. Even if it's illogical. 162.158.41.181 19:32, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- We're not here explaining all the nuances of regional linguistic differences (and, to be clear, I enjoy those linguistic differences and have found the discussion here interesting). We're explaining what this particular comic means. Randall is from the US. Particularly given the reference to Dennis the Menace, who is frequently portrayed with an elastic band slingshot (which, interestingly enough, is common to both the US and British cartoon characters), and rarely if ever with a sling, it's clear that the former is the subject of this comic. And if, in fact, Randall intended to refer to a sling, it would be quite strange to refer to "an earlier form", because slings today are still basically the same as they were in ancient times. The explanation posits a link which does not exist between slings and slingshots. 162.158.154.98 14:14, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- When I 'arrived', it did not posit a link, it just downright said that Dennis was using what might be called a Shepherd's Sling (which is an ancient weapon), and it needed rewording to restate it as the far more recent Hand Catapult. Arguably, as a modern solution to the idea of throwing stones with great force, it might be said to be a spiritual improvement on the old design (whether or not there are still reasons to keep up the 'old type', including still vastly greater chucking-velocities (at the expense of accuracy issues by those who haven't practiced a lot!) and the ability to use much more available 'chord').
- You know, like the info about the UK version of Dennis, it might be a candidate for moving to Trivia (auxilliary facts not directly tied in with the comic but might be linked to it in some minds). I might try that. 172.70.86.146 14:44, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- (Follow-up, having been 172.70.86.146, immediately above...) Well, I did it! And edited out errors/edited in more slight changes. Let the Wiki Gods assess the results and, through their incarnations through such vessels as other editors, do what more (or less) they consider worthy of their worship and sacrifice! (i.e., over to every other random editor here... At least until I get more/different inspiration of my own. :p ) 172.70.163.49 15:44, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- FWIW, a websearch on strings such as "David Goliath slingshot" returns many hits. Some of these do indeed distinguish between the sling (weapon) and the slingshot, but others don't. I like the "Trivia" idea, in conjunction with the (currently) extant text.172.71.150.113 15:36, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- We're not here explaining all the nuances of regional linguistic differences (and, to be clear, I enjoy those linguistic differences and have found the discussion here interesting). We're explaining what this particular comic means. Randall is from the US. Particularly given the reference to Dennis the Menace, who is frequently portrayed with an elastic band slingshot (which, interestingly enough, is common to both the US and British cartoon characters), and rarely if ever with a sling, it's clear that the former is the subject of this comic. And if, in fact, Randall intended to refer to a sling, it would be quite strange to refer to "an earlier form", because slings today are still basically the same as they were in ancient times. The explanation posits a link which does not exist between slings and slingshots. 162.158.154.98 14:14, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- See the excellent comment below. Instances of this sort of thing abound, porque Inglés es loco. Even in the sciences. A cylindrical, motile structure responsible for motion of, or circulation of water currents around, eukaryotic cells is termed a "flagellum" if it's moving sperm, or a "cilium" if it's moving phlegm on the surface of the trachea. There is no structural or functional difference between the "flagellum" and the "cilium" of these cells, but there are plenty between the "flagellum" of sperm cells and the "flagellum" found on some bacterial cells. However, an attempt to use a common term (undulipodium) for the common structure was shouted down. The preference was to retain imprecise terms that were understood by some of the people some of the time, rather than trying to adopt a precise term that was understood by nobody. Vox populi, vox Dei. Even if it's illogical. 162.158.41.181 19:32, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- I'm also in the US, but slingshot to me specifically evokes something where you store and release elastic energy. People often *hear* sling and think it's referring to a slingshot, because they're unfamiliar with an actual sling (weapon). Although slingshot and sling are certainly etymologically related, they are not technologically related. You might argue that a "gravitational slingshot" is a misnomer, in that its arc around a body is more akin to a sling than to a slingshot, I suppose. But a sling is not an earlier form of the "regular slingshot" in this comic. 172.71.31.46 16:56, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- I come from where the Y-Stick-with-rubber-'bowstring' is termed a catapult, and always associated "slingshot" as being the "shot" (projectile) that was slung (either in a David/Golith 'swung sling' or a Dennise The Menace 'pulled elastic' version), where actually deliberately manufactured/harvested beforehand (typically cast lead, as per muskets, or else specific riverbed pebbles) for consistency of mass and convenience of size rather than just relying upon randomly available rocks and stones grabbed from the ground-clutter as and when needed.
- But when I went looking for references, it seems there's a general merging of terms (apparently also "pea-shooter", among others, although I'd say that was a short blowpipe/thick straw that a dried pea or pea-sized wad of mashed up paper can be quickly expelled from just by lung-power). And while some 'catapults' might also be the slung type, with the neolithic-era "stout cords and cradle" design, generally the comic-book type (rather than full blown onagers, mangonels or trebuchets) match what both UK and US alternatives of Dennis tend to use, so clearly that's what Randall is talking about. 172.70.91.27 17:23, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- Indeed, the etymologists tell us that "hand-held implement for throwing stones" is the original meaning of the word "sling", and it dates to 1300. Whereas "slingshot", with "hand catapult" given as a synonym (implying the cleft-stick version), dates only from 1849. The etymologists also tell us that, by the 14th century, "sling" had acquired the additional meaning of "loop for carrying heavy objects", and, by the 18th century, "cloth for suspending an injured arm". These meanings, I argue, gained prominence, while the sling (weapon) fell out of favor, in armies and in language. I daresay that a person with deir arm in a sling would shudder at the prospect of that arm being hurled at an oncoming foe. It appears to me that, at least in the USA where I reside, "slingshot" is now applied to both the "hand catapult" and the "sling (weapon)" to avoid confusion with the sling (object carrier). 172.68.23.190 15:42, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
I vote we use gravitational slingshots to hunt stray probes. Anyone wanna try taking down Voyager I? 172.69.90.237 14:57, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- If we fire at Voyager I (or II, especially) and perhaps miss, we then likely set a new record for fastest/furthest object sent out into the universe by man. Win-Win! 172.70.91.27 17:23, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
"...such slingshots, which may be called "wrist rockets"." Not without consent from Saunders. Saunders introduced the world’s first wrist-braced slingshot in 1954, the Wrist-Rocket®. But I am not sure it needs to be mentioned: the Saunders device is only one of many, and not specifically called for in the cartoon. PRR (talk) 22:07, 5 September 2024 (UTC)
- "In New York, for example, slingshots with a wrist-brace are illegal under § 265.01 of the New York Penal Code. Possession this style slingshot (often referred to as a “wrist-rocket”) is a misdemeanor, regardless of its intended use." On this evidence, "wrist rocket" has entered the 'lower-case domain', Saunders notwithstanding ... as have nouns like "kleenex" or verbs like "to google".172.71.150.216 05:35, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
If we're being honest, everything has an online enthusiast community. Trogdor147 (talk) 01:09, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
- Perhaps not. There used to be an "everything" subreddit, but it was flagged "mature content" (why are we not surprised) and then banned for particularly unsavory TOS violations (ditto). Humans can't have nice things, I guess. 172.71.150.129 19:47, 6 September 2024 (UTC)
I'm a fan of drag racing, so I know another usage for the word "slingshot". It's the name for a specific configuration of front engine dragster. The driver sits at the very rear of the vehicle, behind the engine, transmission and drive wheels. These Are Not The Comments You Are Looking For (talk) 03:31, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
- With apologies to your brand of "drag racing", but I initially thought you were invoking the other kind. After all, they would have reason to talk of the Slingback, so why not a 'Slingshot'?
- Though, bearing in mind that I'm still at this point rapidly thinking about what few things I know about (the other) 'drag racing', now you're talking of the "front engine", and I'm wondering if this is perhaps not to do with footwear but instead an unusual euphamism for... something..? ;) (Possibly as the stylistic opposite to the alternative. A form of 'sling' could be involved; and surely it has a name, but I wouldn't know what.)
- With apologies for rapidly changing the tone, but I had an internal chuckle when I then worked out where my premise was going wrong in the first place.
- And that wikipedia page (BTW, using the {{w}} linking method is better than []ing the wikipedia URL) was interesting. Could do with some further info and (non-red) onward links.
- Seems not to mention that in making a front-wheel-drive chassis a rear-wheel "slingshot" by removing the rear wheels, they also had to add those token "even more front" wheels (it's obvious they did, but reading the text makes it sound like you end up with a strictly single-axle transverse two-wheeler configuration. Which sounds slightly more safe to ride than a Monowheel, at least as long as you don't get vastly uneven drive torques between wheels. But I'm sure someone has tried to do it in a dragster-like format! 172.69.43.168 12:15, 8 September 2024 (UTC)
