Talk:2981: Slingshots

We don't put tables in the transcript, which is supposed to be screen-readable. Tables are not screen-readable. Ianrbibtitlht (talk) 04:25, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

I now see the hidden "Tables are bad?" content in the incomplete transcript notice! Cute! Ianrbibtitlht (talk) 04:33, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

anybody want to change the transcript? not too confident on how to write it. 42.book.addict (talk) 17:06, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Given it a go. Could add "regular column" and "gravitational column" pre-descriptors to each subsequent pair of row elements, or go the other way and remove the [Row N] bit. Also chose to use the [label]s of [Tick] and [Cross] in place of the 'fancy' characters; could have gone with [Ticked], [Marked with a tick], [Affirmed], etc, but this seemed sensible. Obviously still open for editing.

If I'd have started from scratch, I would have used the (previously identical) table-markup version in the Explanation but have put the "Yay/Nay/freetext" explanation in there with it. But that's not to say that it doesn't look fairly ok (if not better?) in the paragraph-by-paragraph treatment as it currently is, with the table there as visual repeat only.

YMMV on all aspects of my choice/complicit acceptance, naturally. 172.69.194.143 18:20, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Looks great! Thanks. Ianrbibtitlht (talk) 21:03, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

We should clarify that it's the American Dennis and not the British one. There are differences, which I learned the hard way :( 172.69.43.184 06:48, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

I expanded (and moved to a Trivia section) the interesting facts of this coincidence. (And I didn't add this link there, but maybe it's of "not even Trivia" interest, so you can have it here instead.) 172.70.86.37 10:53, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

This case is pretty clearly the US one; there is no "Mr Wilson" in the UK comic... though I'm going to go out on a limb and assert that if there was, he would assuredly be terrorised by Dennis. And Gnasher. (The US is really missing out on Gnasher!) --162.158.74.48 09:02, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

I'm really surprised that "regular slingshot" is "no" for spacecraft instead of something like "not yet". SystemParadox (talk) 09:46, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

There's definitely spring-type "delivery systems" (analogues of the elastic slingshots, arguably) which hasten the detatchment of items on a multi-launch 'racked' delivery system. There's also the (proposed, SFAIK not yet tried in anger) rotating-tether release system, akin to biblical sling(shot)s, that would actually be what the gravitational slingshot is most similar to by pure analogy.

If we ever get a space-elevator and 'drop' things off from the counterweight station, then that would effectively be a biblical slingshot on a planetary scale. (If we time the drop right, or very wrong, with a heavy enough load or even most of the counterweight itself, such that it ends up eventually impacting Earth or any other inhabited lump of rock, it could well also be a matter of a planetary slingshot with effects on a biblical scale!) 172.70.86.37 10:53, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Gravitational slingshot & Used for Sport shooting would also be a "not yet". Imagine a couple of millenia from now, where gravitational slingshoting is a sport, and is called shooting for one of many reasons. ok, fair. It's a stretch. But I felt I had to mention it. 162.158.222.142 12:45, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

In Futurama they use Gravitational slingshot for "Miniature" golf

This comic comes the same week as the release of a movie called Slingshot about the gravitational kind.

Isn't David supposed to be using a sling in his fight with Goliath, not a slingshot? That is, a long bit of material that you can use to throw a projectile with higher velocity? There seems to be similar confusion in describing a slingshot as using "mechanical advantage and rotation". A slingshot doesn't really involve rotation, nor does it involve mechanical advantage, really. Mechanical advantage is force amplification, right? And most slingshots don't amplify force, they simply are better than human bodies at delivering that force while moving quickly - that is, they amplify power. Maybe that's splitting hairs. 172.68.71.102 14:52, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

I see now that the text has been edited, distinguishing a sling as "an earlier form" of the slingshot. I still don't think that's accurate. They both accelerate a projectile, but they're not at all the same mechanism. Slingshots store deformation energy, and slings store kinetic energy. If we're talking ancient weapons that a slingshot is comparable to, it's far more like a bow than it is a sling. 172.71.22.58 15:16, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Indeed, the etymologists tell us that "hand-held implement for throwing stones" is the original meaning of the word "sling", and it dates to 1300. Whereas "slingshot", with "hand catapult" given as a synonym (implying the cleft-stick version), dates only from 1849. The etymologists also tell us that, by the 14th century, "sling" had acquired the additional meaning of "loop for carrying heavy objects", and, by the 18th century, "cloth for suspending an injured arm". These meanings, I argue, gained prominence, while the sling (weapon) fell out of favor, in armies and in language. I daresay that a person with deir arm in a sling would shudder at the prospect of that arm being hurled at an oncoming foe. It appears to me that, at least in the USA where I reside, "slingshot" is now applied to both the "hand catapult" and the "sling (weapon)" to avoid confusion with the sling (object carrier). 172.68.23.190 15:42, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

I'm also in the US, but slingshot to me specifically evokes something where you store and release elastic energy. People often *hear* sling and think it's referring to a slingshot, because they're unfamiliar with an actual sling (weapon). Although slingshot and sling are certainly etymologically related, they are not technologically related. You might argue that a "gravitational slingshot" is a misnomer, in that its arc around a body is more akin to a sling than to a slingshot, I suppose. But a sling is not an earlier form of the "regular slingshot" in this comic. 172.71.31.46 16:56, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

See the excellent comment below. Instances of this sort of thing abound, porque Inglés es loco. Even in the sciences. A cylindrical, motile structure responsible for motion of, or circulation of water currents around, eukaryotic cells is termed a "flagellum" if it's moving sperm, or a "cilium" if it's moving phlegm on the surface of the trachea. There is no structural or functional difference between the "flagellum" and the "cilium" of these cells, but there are plenty between the "flagellum" of sperm cells and the "flagellum" found on some bacterial cells. However, an attempt to use a common term (undulipodium) for the common structure was shouted down. The preference was to retain imprecise terms that were understood by some of the people some of the time, rather than trying to adopt a precise term that was understood by nobody. Vox populi, vox Dei. Even if it's illogical. 162.158.41.181 19:32, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

We're not here explaining all the nuances of regional linguistic differences (and, to be clear, I enjoy those linguistic differences and have found the discussion here interesting). We're explaining what this particular comic means. Randall is from the US. Particularly given the reference to Dennis the Menace, who is frequently portrayed with an elastic band slingshot (which, interestingly enough, is common to both the US and British cartoon characters), and rarely if ever with a sling, it's clear that the former is the subject of this comic. And if, in fact, Randall intended to refer to a sling, it would be quite strange to refer to "an earlier form", because slings today are still basically the same as they were in ancient times. The explanation posits a link which does not exist between slings and slingshots.

I come from where the Y-Stick-with-rubber-'bowstring' is termed a catapult, and always associated "slingshot" as being the "shot" (projectile) that was slung (either in a David/Golith 'swung sling' or a Dennise The Menace 'pulled elastic' version), where actually deliberately manufactured/harvested beforehand (typically cast lead, as per muskets, or else specific riverbed pebbles) for consistency of mass and convenience of size rather than just relying upon randomly available rocks and stones grabbed from the ground-clutter as and when needed.

But when I went looking for references, it seems there's a general merging of terms (apparently also "pea-shooter", among others, although I'd say that was a short blowpipe/thick straw that a dried pea or pea-sized wad of mashed up paper can be quickly expelled from just by lung-power). And while some 'catapults' might also be the slung type, with the neolithic-era "stout cords and cradle" design, generally the comic-book type (rather than full blown onagers, mangonels or trebuchets) match what both UK and US alternatives of Dennis tend to use, so clearly that's what Randall is talking about. 172.70.91.27 17:23, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

I vote we use gravitational slingshots to hunt stray probes. Anyone wanna try taking down Voyager I? 172.69.90.237 14:57, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

If we fire at Voyager I (or II, especially) and perhaps miss, we then likely set a new record for fastest/furthest object sent out into the universe by man. Win-Win! 172.70.91.27 17:23, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

"...such slingshots, which may be called "wrist rockets"." Not without consent from Saunders. Saunders introduced the world’s first wrist-braced slingshot in 1954, the Wrist-Rocket®. But I am not sure it needs to be mentioned: the Saunders device is only one of many, and not specifically called for in the cartoon. PRR (talk) 22:07, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

"In New York, for example, slingshots with a wrist-brace are illegal under § 265.01 of the New York Penal Code. Possession this style slingshot (often referred to as a “wrist-rocket”) is a misdemeanor, regardless of its intended use." On this evidence, "wrist rocket" has entered the 'lower-case domain', Saunders notwithstanding ... as have nouns like "kleenex" or verbs like "to google".172.71.150.216 05:35, 6 September 2024 (UTC)

If we're being honest, everything has an online enthusiast community. Trogdor147 (talk) 01:09, 6 September 2024 (UTC)